Tagged With "Peakvue"

Topic

0.6 pk IPS High Vibration at Large Axial flow pump

Ayaz Ahmed ·
We are facing high vibration an axial Flow Morris Type 54” MPAF pump which is designed for re-circulation of Caustic Liquid. This is an overhung design pump with no bearing support on the Non drive end side and pump is directly installed to elbow of a large pipe. Following are the specifications of equipment Flow: 20,000 m3/ hr. RPM: 242 Driver: 1185rpm, 530 kW Motor Driven through a Gear box and universal coupling Observations:- Highest Vibration at P1H (Pump Inboard Horizontal) of 0.5-0.6...
Topic

Auto correlate of DC Motor

M.Tahir Abbas ·
Hello! Please find below the snapshot of Auto Correlate of DC Motor DE PeakVue. I'm too confused about the pattern. DC Motor is driving 3 Shaft Gearbox which is then conneted to Roll of Paper Machine via Universal Shaft.
Topic

2130 set up

Vibsouth ·
Hi Dose anyone know how to get a 2130 to take these two reading at the same time example - M1H and M1P together thanks
Topic

BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

708 AEA ·
Some time ago I was called in to perform acceptance testing on 7 new pumps in a wastewater application. These are vertical centrifugal solids-handling pumps with a jack shaft going upstairs one elevation to the drive motor. All of them operate at or near 900 RPM, with 5 of them on VFDs (the 2 largest on soft starts). There were lots of problems with air locking and venting of the lines to get the pumps to start pumping. Once we did individual runs of the pumps, I found that pumps 1/2 and...
Topic

Case Study

Hossam 2 ·
Case Study : CenterHung Fan ,spherical Roller bearing,1000 Rpm Speed ,lubrication is oil Dominant frequency is 1XTS TWF about to be sinsoidal in vertical direction PeakVue is concerning and when using correlation Factor it showed a periodic peaks as shown below Accelerometer 100mv/g units mm./sec Result is :Bearing is rotating on shaft and excessive wear on shaft. i need your comments. horizotal (Spectrum mm./sec) Vertical Axial correlation Factor
Topic

G-SE / Peakvue/ Demodulation / spike values applicable for sleeve bearing

SMK -ALBA ·
Dear All, For sleeve bearing condition ; Peakvue ,g SE or spike values are helpful or its only for rolling element bearings. If its consider for sleeve bearing also, means what is the guide value for that. Thanks SMK
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

Dave Reynolds ·
The bearing you talk about reaching 400F and you found nothing wrong with bearings? Can you elaborate on what you did see? Assume 3 has same issue with wrong preload, did the bearing also get hot and look fine when inspected? What do you know about the pump operation, good area of pump curve, number of impeller vanes, meeting design spec? If max speed is 900, assume min speed is 700? Yes setting bearing wrong can cause ball spin and cage rattle, neither are a good thing to have.... What...
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

708 AEA ·
I did not inspect the bearing; I was out of the loop at this point and was getting feedback 3rd hand from sales. The rotating assembly was pulled and sent back to the pump manufacturer for teardown and inspection. Their visual inspection, as well as that of the independent witness from the builder, indicated the bearing appeared pristine. Timken examined said bearing and indicated the cause of the overheat was excessive preload. I did not see this report. In what images I did see, the grease...
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

Dave Reynolds ·
You state these are vertical solids pumps, whether the pumps have roller, taper roller, ball or thrust bearings, again over 200F with such short run time is a severe issue. With improper bearing clearance and unstable liquid flow, the pump shaft will want to move all over the place. This can cause catastrophic cage failure, cage pocket stretch, worn bearing cage. If PV shows specific frequencies, you can trust you will find the fault in the bearing. I would expect that the bearings were set...
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

708 AEA ·
When operated solo, each pump runs within HI specs. When operated simultaneously, and depending on the combination/speed, overall velocity levels can exceed 0.6 IPS-RMS in the cross-discharge plane @ vane pass (confirmed resonances, loose baseplates). Axial vibration is low. We feel we have a pretty good understanding of what is happening in this regard, with much of the problem being augmented/transmitted by the discharge piping from pump to pump (loosely supported). Slight speed...
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

Dave Reynolds ·
https://www.waterworld.com/art...ficiency-issues.html http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/15-html/15-01.htm https://www.ksb.com/centrifuga...el-operation/191648/ http://www.plad.com/brochures/press4.pdf https://www.pumpsandsystems.co...allel-pump-operation Sounds like you have different size pumps between 4/5 & 6/7? The above links talk about using different size pumps and different pump manufacturers in parallel system. Does the output of pumps 123 influence/combine with the output of 4567...
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

708 AEA ·
Thanks for the replies, Dave. It is a design I have not encountered before. The shared header and various operating speeds combined with different vane pass frequencies and loose mechanical supports are causing a lot of head scratching. There is also audible cavitation on pumps 6 and 7, visible in the data too. I will try to update this post once we come to resolution or next steps. There is a lot to consider.
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

Walt Strong ·
Can you present vibration data (waveforms and spectra) to support/define your diagnosis and questions? Walt
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

708 AEA ·
Walt, see the screen grabs attached. I am trying to disposition these frequencies as recorded in regular processing and in PeakVue. The data I am providing was all recorded on the same bearing at roughly the same time. Note this bearing had been replaced several weeks earlier due to overheating to 400F. The pump itself has less than 10 run-hours on it. This bearing has a fraction of that time. I uploaded as a Word doc and a pdf for ease of resizing etc.
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

Walt Strong ·
I think it is coincidence that BSF is numerically very close to 3xSS that is caused by pulsation from three impeller vanes. I am not convinced about the cage frequency being present either. The regular acceleration levels are below 4-g (0-2000 Hz BW?), while the PeakVue values are 40-g. This suggests very high frequency vibration above 2000 Hz. The data does not indicate an actual bearing fault (cage or balls), so I would not be surprised if the bearing appeared without visual flaws during...
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

708 AEA ·
The cage is more subtle and appears more as a sideband around the ball spin. The harmonic family identified by the cursors are non-synchronous (speed verified) with the second and fourth harmonics being more pronounced and match very well with the Timken defect frequencies for BSF. Autocorrelation agrees, with majority contribution being periodic. Do I understand correctly you believe these are vane pass harmonics in the PeakVue data?
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

708 AEA ·
UPDATE: A grease sample that was obtained on the #7 pump (while replacing the thrust bearing which had previously overheated) shows evidence of elevated iron content in the form of sliding wear particles.
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

Walt Strong ·
" Do I understand correctly you believe these are vane pass harmonics in the PeakVue data? " You have confirmed to my reasonable satisfaction that the PeakVue data is associated with bearing fault frequencies and not pulsation. Was the grease line feeding thrust bearing purged to remove potential contamination when thrust bearing was replaced? Is the thrust bearing overloaded based on gravity rotor weight, liquid/solids within pump rotor, pump static pressure, and dynamic pressure? Are there...
Reply

Re: BSF and FTF in PeakVue on several new Solids-Handling Pumps

708 AEA ·
Responses in-line above. Thanks for the reply.
Reply

Re: PeakVue samples using triaxial sensors and CSI 2140

JJF ·
You should be able to assign group & channel pairings in Database Setup.
Reply

Re: PeakVue samples using triaxial sensors and CSI 2140

Beatnik ·
It can probably be done but i wouldn't advice it. The accelerometer on the main axis is much better than the other 2 at high frequencies (10khz freq range instead of 3.5kHZ) and you have less rigidity in those directions. I setup my route to have PeakVue and a high frequency Spectrum/TWF on the main axis and lower frequencies on the 2 other axis.
Reply

Re: PeakVue samples using triaxial sensors and CSI 2140

Richard Pratt ·
I agree with Beatnik, Emerson only recommends doing Peakvue on the A channel as the other two orientations have a lower frequency range. That really isn't an issue as they only recommend a single Peakvue reading per bearing.
Reply

Re: Filter Selection for Peakvue analysis

neuman ·
Good day friends. I write for the following I am new with the handle of the administrator mode I have versio MHM 4.9 I need to configure a peakvue and I have no idea of the parameters of I should create and set alarm. Someone can enjoy a good love of giving me a guide to create this point of view print with the complete configuration. Exhilarated beforehand. regards
Reply

Re: Filter Selection for Peakvue analysis

xprmntl1 ·
Go to your tools in AMS Suite MHM and find your frequency calculations program, youll see a Peakview assistant program in which you can input all of your info and it will suggest a High Pass Filter and will also suggest alarms.
Reply

Re: Filter Selection for Peakvue analysis

neuman ·
Ok I manage the program but in investigations in one case I see that a full band alarm was created and in others I see that it varies the parameters. Is what confucion creates me.
Reply

Re: PeakVue samples using triaxial sensors and CSI 2140

Torptorp ·
In addition to what others have mentioned, think about your Triax Accel A channel having the best response due to the pull of the 2 pole magnet in that axis. You will lose a decent amount of your Peakvue data trying to get it from the B or C channels. We have even experienced some signal difference from our switch over from single axis data acquisition because we are taking either the horizontal or vertical in a different location from the single channel accel on route data. So we have a...
Reply

Re: Filter Selection for Peakvue analysis

xprmntl1 ·
3-4 times the BPFI or highest fault frequency and or 2XGMF(if gears are present) is usually the determining factor when determining the correct FMAX. CSI recommends a 40.5 order FMAX depending on application, and the HP filter should be equal to or above the FMAX. Say you have a motor turning 1800rpm and the FMAX is set at 40 orders, that gives you an FMAX of 72,000cpm or 1200HZ, you will have to set filter at 2000HZ, or you can lower FMAX some to come closer to the 1000HZ filter by setting...
Reply

Re: Filter Selection for Peakvue analysis

rgf12 ·
In PeakVue the vast majority of the data collection is used with a single high pass filter based on the expected fault frequencies that would be expected to be generated either by the bearings or the gears. Rarely is a low pass filter specified in conjunction with a HP filter (that would be a band pass filter BTW) unless you are looking for a specific fault frequency set that would not generate harmonics of the fault frequencies. I can only think of one case that I have dealt with and that...
Topic

Filter Selection for Peakvue analysis

Prabhu ·
I wish to start this topic, because I have discussed with many Condition Monitoring people I worked with but Still I'm yet to get a convincing answer. Filter Selection for Peakvue analysis. How to select a filter? What are the criteria to be considered? ( BPFI, RPM, Lubrication type, access to the bearing load zone, ....)? Most software have an option to select the HP filter only for Pkvue analysis I'm not clear how it picks corresponding LP filter for that? If there are more than one high...
Reply

Re: 0.6 pk IPS High Vibration at Large Axial flow pump

Dave Reynolds ·
Can you provide a multiple point waterfall, include HVA directions, at each bearing location on the gearbox and pump, if you can get the motor in there also that would help. 18 points maximum allowed in AMS software Resolution of your data is not sufficient enough to determine what frequencies are present, can you take a set of velocity readings on this machine with a 6000 cpm fmax, 1600 LOR, 4 avgs, 50% overlap. Also collect peakvue with 60,000 fmax, 1600 LOR, 500hz and 1000hz filters, 1...
Reply

Re: 0.6 pk IPS High Vibration at Large Axial flow pump

Ayaz Ahmed ·
First of all sorry for the late response; I could only make to the pump yesterday. Please find below the required information 1. I have attached multiple point waterfall for all the points except Peakvue plots. 2. I have attached different plot for the Pump with better resolution as required. 3. Two readings of Peakvue also attached. 4. Pump was completely replaced with an overhauled one, elbow is part of pipe and we didn’t replaced it. 5. I will take bump test reading in the next shutdown...
Reply

Re: 0.6 pk IPS High Vibration at Large Axial flow pump

Ayaz Ahmed ·
I don't know why I can't attach anything in my reply and how to delete or edit my response
Reply

Re: 0.6 pk IPS High Vibration at Large Axial flow pump

Dave Reynolds ·
When you reply, in the bottom right corner it shows "add attachment, see below now
Reply

Re: 0.6 pk IPS High Vibration at Large Axial flow pump

Ayaz Ahmed ·
Re-sent with attachments.
Reply

Re: 0.6 pk IPS High Vibration at Large Axial flow pump

Ron Brook ·
Response definitely looks like resonant energy. Have you checked all of the supporting piping connections and supports to ensure they ? I don't suspect a flow condition because the axial direction and vertical directions look OK. Check any supports that would affect horizontal stiffness. Ron Brook
Reply

Re: 0.6 pk IPS High Vibration at Large Axial flow pump

Ayaz Ahmed ·
In that case the CSI Function of Bump Test "Equipment Running" will be on any help? Actually as discussed earlier and can be seen in the above attachment of Pump general drawing, there is no separate support for the pump, it's just directly bolted to the flange on the elbow. However the suction 86" line which is coming from a Caustic crystallizer must have some supports (which am not very aware of). However as mentioned earlier this problem started after replacing the complete pump in Plant...
Reply

Re: 0.6 pk IPS High Vibration at Large Axial flow pump

abdillah al bandari ·
look like, that cavitation problem due to flow recirculation inside of pump. comparing to your waterfall that second peak frequency already exist before overhaul and after overhaul become higher. perhaps you can check operation. i assume pump discharge pressure increasing due to restriction at discharge line that cause pump internal recirculation. Regards, Abdillah
Reply

Re: 0.6 pk IPS High Vibration at Large Axial flow pump

Walt Strong ·
I think your spectral data indicates you have two problems that were more likely caused by maintenance actions of replacing the pump. The first problem is the vibration at essentially one half shaft speed that may be caused by impeller rub condition. My understanding is that this pump design does not have an impeller wear ring like a centrifugal pump. The impeller vane tip clearance is critical, so a rub could occur if the shaft is not correctly centered in the housing. The second vibration...
Topic

Intermittent/transient Peakvue on paper machine press idler roll

S. Simmons ·
Hi all, first time poster, long time reader. We recently commissioned an Emerson 6500 online system in conjunction with our new paper machine press section. I'm seeing some rather odd readings from one of our idler rolls. Specifically, 2PL9 Drive Side. Data in the attached document. Setup: SKF 22314E bearings Wilcoxon 787-500mV/g permanent axial mounted accelerometers PeakVue Parameters: Fmax 40 orders, 3200 lines, HP Filter 500Hz Tach Speed referenced from scaled 4-20mA DCS output of 2nd...
Reply

Re: Intermittent/transient Peakvue on paper machine press idler roll

Becar ·
Did I understand correctly, you have axially mounted permanent accelometers??
Reply

Re: Intermittent/transient Peakvue on paper machine press idler roll

S. Simmons ·
They are side exit accels mounted in the axial position on the bearing housing.
Reply

Re: Intermittent/transient Peakvue on paper machine press idler roll

Becar ·
So you basically measure axial vibration is that correct?
Reply

Re: Intermittent/transient Peakvue on paper machine press idler roll

S. Simmons ·
Yes, that is correct.
Reply

Re: Intermittent/transient Peakvue on paper machine press idler roll

Becar ·
Bearing evaluation is commonly done in radial directions (axial as addition), so my opinion is you don't have the proper data for bearing analysis. The measured axial discontinuity could be any other than the bearing failure.
Reply

Re: Intermittent/transient Peakvue on paper machine press idler roll

S. Simmons ·
No...that's not why.
Reply

Re: Intermittent/transient Peakvue on paper machine press idler roll

Walt Strong ·
Based on the following information: Ball bearing Measurement in thrust/axial direction Intermittent BPFO frequency in PeakVue (but not in low frequency velocity?) Possibly unsteady BPFO frequency, and it is not an exact match to calculated value I would expect (my hypothesis) there is changing axial/thrust load on shaft that moves the ball path into defect on outer race, and with the higher load causing higher vibration peaks. Calculation of ball bearing fault frequencies (like the BPFO)...
Reply

Re: Intermittent/transient Peakvue on paper machine press idler roll

S. Simmons ·
Walt, Thanks for the reply. To address your bullet points: 1. These are spherical roller bearings, not ball bearings. Not sure if that plays into your response or not. 2. This is correct, vibration is being taken in the axial plane near the load zone of the bearing. (Which I've been told by my Level 1 & 2 instructor is perfectly acceptable for spherical and tapered roller bearings) 3. Due to the way the online system is set to take data (regular interval AND when alarm threshold is met),...
Reply

Re: Intermittent/transient Peakvue on paper machine press idler roll

DBTCMP ·
Spherical rollers work well being monitored axially in the Load Zone. I do this on head drum rollers in quarries and have had very good results.
Reply

Re: Auto correlate of DC Motor

Jim.F ·
You might have better data if you use a lower HP Filter. Maybe 500Hz.
Reply

Re: G-SE / Peakvue/ Demodulation / spike values applicable for sleeve bearing

Dave Reynolds ·
https://www.maintenance.org/top...eeve-bearing-peakvue This topic has been discussed in the past, if you use the little magnifying glass in the menu bar, search for peakvue sleeve bearings, and multiple threads are available with possible answers to your question. The above link was taken from that search Dave
 
×
×
×
×