Josh,we do the same as Eugene. We have a small plant wit a lot of fire extinguishers.

The weekly inspection, with follow-up already consumes resources. If there is no prompt reaction to impaired equipment, the system looses credibility and people will start filling in checklist from a comfortable chair without going in the field.
Since we do not refill the fire extinguishers, it is easier to leave the maintenance with the company, that fills it.
Only thinking about the parts to put in stock, and the battle with stores, for only fire extinguishers, training people to handle it, identifying model numbers, bulk of CO2 and other supplies, Eeker we are already short on manpower. And have to justify this all to beanies..
Svannels:
Weekly? Can be changed to monthly?
* Is there any regulation that requires weekly inspections?
* Does the weekly inspections report any failures or impaired equipment that justify that frequency?

I'm sure you can identify other tasks to keep people out of the comfortable chairs. A bored security guard will be glad to have something to do during the night shift.
There are 4 things to do as per NFPA10 for portable fire extinsguishers:
1) Routine inspection which NFPA says monthly
2) Maintenance which NPFA says annual eg dismantling of horn, hose etc but without discharge of content
3) Refill if weight loss more than 10% or after use
4) Hydraulic test of canisters including internal inspection.

Refill & hydraulic test are of course by external contractors but why can't inhouse personnel do external maintenance? Are they qualified to do it eg after attending fire fighting course?

We are safety conscious like everybody else I hope but at the same time do not want to be doing excessive maintenance, just right maintenance to safeguard technical integrity.
Routine weekly inspection is to ensure that extinguisher is on marked place and somebody did not break the seal and did not report it, or switched an ABC with a CO2 cylinder. The last thing you want is that you take the wrong extinguisher when needed.

Annual dismantling of horn, without discharge of content? I would rather discharge it than have a fire extinguisher which have not been in operation for 3 years.

A fire fighting training with portable extinguisher does not guarantee that the user is trained to mess around with tools. The whole office club is "trained" every year to use a portable fire extinguisher, but demand that the secretaries also know how to dismantle Big Grin...
quote:
A bored security guard will be glad to have something to do during the night shift.



I did work on shifts for some years Big Grin Big Grin, and after the 3rd night, the biological clock will demand rest, unless you are undertaking some "heavy" physical activities
Josh,
Just crush some numbers and see:
* since an contractor is required for the internal inspection/hydraulic test, also for refill (either annual of after a use), how much additional cost that contractor would charge you for the annual maintenance
v.s.
* how much cost you that annual maintenance if it is done with your crew?

Are savings considerable or you could spent that crew time in other tasks?

In our plant we handled that with a contractor, and even have the Security Section do the monthly inspections. I think the only jobs Maintenance do to the fire extinguishers is the installation of signs and the wall mounting brackets.
Weekly inspection of portable fire extinguishers and weekly test run of fire pumps at full load appear excessive maintenance.

I'm talking about advanced fire fighting as the first fire intervention team.

The annual overhaul maintenance contains sufficient tasks to ensure it will work when needed.

Imagine the cost of logistics of transporting from offshore to onshore and have to replace with spares before removal. It's a bit easier for onhore plants.
This toppic started with portable fire extinguishers

Advanced fire fighting is not done with portable fire extinguishers, that is a specialized subject and must be threated that way.


I never said that we do weekly maintenance on fire extinguishers, I used the word inspection

The area responsible, lets call him the owner is accountable for his/hers own safety.

Walking a route with a checklist to check if:
1) On designated place the indicated extinguisher exist
2) Somebody did not break the seal
3) It is not empty

Is not maintenance
I get the impression of some unlogical math

inspection = maintenance Eeker

Maintenance has portable fire extinguishers, and they are portable because they are used in hot work jobs around the plant, and if you don't have a tight system of checking...

Running firewater pumps at no load will lead to excessive maintenance.
Doing annual overhaul on engines is excessive maintenance, probably you will introduce more errors in the system.
We have engines that never have been overhauled for more than 12 years (caterpillars) and they run at full load and full throttle.

The ones that run on little or no load, suffer "strange" start-stop or "testing" procedures, are known to be trouble makers.

quote:

I think the only jobs Maintenance do to the fire extinguishers is the installation of signs and the wall mounting brackets

I second Eugene's opinion, but even the signs in our case is not maintenance work.
I also use the word "weekly inspection" above but this still appears excessive work to do.

In our case, the extinguishers provided in the plant strategic locations are not supposed to be moved without fireman's consent. The hot works should come with their own extinguishers and fire watchers especially contractors.

I mean annual maintenance/overhaul of portable fire extingishers as per NFPA10.

Where did I equate inspection to maintenance? But inspection is certainly part of maintenance in our case.

Running fire water pumps at no load is a failure finding task. I say running them at full load every time during fire drills every month or so appears excessive work.

Where did I say overhaul the diesel engines every year?

Obviously our fireman can do the signs & brackets without maintenance unless welding or fabricating works are needed.
Josh, do you know the different classes of portable fire extinguishers?
Do you know when to use it and why?
Do you know its internals and functioning?
Do you know the refill pressures and filling procedures procedures?
Do you know how long you can use it?

If on any of these questions the answer is no, I would leave it to specialized organizations, which however also can make dangerous mistakes.
We are dealing with pressure vessels and I have seen the damage caused by an exploding cylinder just because at a "specialized" company somebody screwed up refilling an ABC powder cylinder with CO2. Luckily nobody got hurt, but the effect was the same as throwing a grenade.

The NFPA code is nice, but I would first do some homework to know how these devices work. Your local firemen can give you a lot of information, which is not found in the code, about use, effectiveness and how these devices work and are constructed.
Our breathing air apparatus are serviced by the local fire brigade, which are also specialized items that is in the arsenal of the modern fire brigade.
But I would be the last on to wear a device on the back filled with 300 bar "compressed air" serviced by someone who doesn't know about the working or dangers of this piece of equipment.
Imagine that "they" would yust hook it up to the maintenance compressor, and fill it with lubricant oil, or air containing silica (sand), dust or germs. Eeker

After receiving training in firefighting by specialized persons, I realized how little I know about it, and I know just enough to see my limits.
quote:
Imagine the cost of logistics of transporting from offshore to onshore and have to replace with spares before removal. It's a bit easier for onshore plants.

Josh:
That is a good answer, since costs associated to the fact that you are at an offshore facility then it is practical and economical to do the maintenance with your crew than have a contractor do it. In our case, considered all costs applicable, our solution is subcontract that task.
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Svanels:
Agreed. signs and wall brackets installation are not PM jobs. They are not corrective maintenance either, unless we were replacing the previous sign / wall bracket someone knocked down with a forklift. Initial installation jobs are classified as "plant improvements" orders.
I don't see any "high" costs in logistics involved.

Imagine you have 500 portable fire extinguishers, there is no law, neither NFPA stating that they have to be serviced all on one day. You just need some spares and maybe a contract to send 15 every month with the regular boat.

It thought it is mandatory have at least the latest refill date on the bottle. A extinguisher which have been 3 year inactive, has not been tested in 3 years, "hidden" failure, but running a round and "testing" everymonth Big Grin.. is very expensive
Are you saying all fire extinguishers which have been inactive for 3 years should be tested and discharged completely?

I agree the last refill date and even inspection date should be sticked on the bottle clearly.

We don't test every month (which we thought is excessive) but inspect every 3 months including agitating/turning the bottle upside down a few times to ensure the powder doesn't cake or hardened.
Hi
Did you all come across CO2 bottles with piping/hose going into steel cabinet (it a paint storage cabinet)and manual actuator?
We had one in our plant but was not registered in Maximo from day one.
Any suggestion what kind of maintenance/inspection should be done and what frequency?

Thanks!

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