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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Fluid Compatibilityto Metals
Registered Member To start: http://www.hydrobalance.com/LubricantsHome.htm http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/W-HYOV-MC002-..._EZ_clip.pdf#search= 'lubricant%20compatibility%20chart' http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g1274_rev9_03.pdf#search= 'oil%20compatibility%20chart' http://www.nyelubricants.com/literature/engineering_pdf...ering_Ref_Charts.pdf [ more ]
Registered Member A strange combination, since all lubricants I know are coming in contact with some metal. The lubricants will rather attack non metals or alloys. I suggest a search on google wih "oil-seal compatibility" or "lubricant compatibility chart" The additives are probably the "agents" initiating the damage. One of the first thing I learned from a designer/engineer/equipment builder that EP Gearoil is a nono is you have copper rollers or bushings. [ more ]
Registered Member Hans, the first page of the link dont answer your question, but is a light in the tunnel wich will help you to find it. http://phn.tamu.edu/me626/Notes_pdf/Tribology_applicas.pdf [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Grease degradation on sealed type bearing
Registered Member Pete, Sorry I'm so late with this reply... I forgot to check this post. What we saw from the overheating was shortened bearing life. We had some bearings start degrading 6 months after installation and we had had several "premature" failures in the past few years. I was observing the installation of the new bearings and discovered that they were being heated to 300 or more degrees (F) "because the hotter they are the easier they go on". Our maintenance guys had no idea that there was a... [ more ]
Registered Member Or maybe I just misunderstood the comment. When you said bearings were routinely being overheated, did you simply mean that you routinely exceeded the 80C recommended by SKF and other manufacturers? [ more ]
Registered Member Ed - what kinds of problems did you see from overheating the bearings during mounting? Was it immediately evident? What were you using as a temperature limit before, and how were you heating (induction heater or other) (just curious) [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Is lubricant consolidation a must?
Registered Member Cannot open last article above from Exxon.com. [ more ]
Registered Member Organizing your needs. Organizing your lubes. Organizing your PM schedule. Basic Organizing can save you big time on lube costs. Usually a lube, more specificially grease, is useful in more than one area and crossing manufacturer's recommendations will allow you to typically drop 2 or 3 products from the arsenal. Making sure each product is easily identifiable in all forms (grease guns, bulk, intermediate storage, transport) is critical to good lube and PM practice. Precision and... [ more ]
Registered Member Number of them out there with a simple google search... http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=860 http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=278 http://www.dowcorning.com/content/news/iam_news3.asp?DCWS=Molykote&DCWSS= http://www.noria.com/learning_center/category_article.a...ookgroup=Lubrication http://www.exxon.com/USA-English/Files/EPlus.pdf#search...idation%20program%22 etc. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Reducing rotating machinery downtime
Registered Member Did you get a copy of this article ? [ more ]
Registered Member Ibrahim, Well said; one would think it would appeal to common sense, but as we all know, how common is common sense? One of the reasons for the success of TPM is the great emphasis it place son cleanliness and discipline. [ more ]
Registered Member As a man who has been involved in vibrations at least for the last twenty five years, I am a firm believer of "lubricant cleanliness first!". Unfortunately our engineering training is not tailored towards that. (At least 30 yrs ago that is how it was.) In my seminars, I always ask this question: "Would you take your boy to a doctor who has had only 3 hrs of training in blood, the essential fluid of the body" The answer of course is "No!". Then I say, "But us mechanical engineers are trained... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Transformer Oil Sampling
Registered Member 1)Read ASTM D3613-98 and ASTM D 923-97 2)Neta has two or three interesting articles on this matter. See electricpete's post above. Regards Claudio [ more ]
Registered Member PredictUSA may also be a source. Check 'em out and ask for Doug Holmes. [ more ]
Registered Member Mike, I tried to call you several times today to discuss the Transformer Oil testing. Please email me when it may be a good time to call you. smithj@ivc-pdm.com Jim Smith IVC [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Synthesized Hyrdocarbons (mislabled Synthetic Lubricant)
Registered Member Josh, I'm not sure about all of them. However, the ones I dealt with could, but there was a pretty good price differential. That is why I refer to them as specialty lubes. If there is a problem, price per pound doesn't really figure into it (at least it didn't for me). The results were what counted. I think the bigger vendors keep price per unit down by the volumes they mix. Dave [ more ]
Registered Member Can the smaller but better vendors cope with a lubricant consolidation ie supply all types of lubricants or just special applications? [ more ]
Registered Member Bill, Supposedly the salesman was in contact with the "Application Engineer", who agreed with the salesmans recommendation of increased vis, high wear and oxidation. I never got to talk to any of the "App Engineers". What I did do though was took samples of several of the big boys and the small players recommended oils, and had the Falex corp run some tests. We came up with some, and they ran the standard 4 ball, etc. Guess what, the little guy beat the dickens out of the big boys. We had... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Hydraulic Tip Debate
Registered Member If I am looking at the hits on google for chupacabra the "goat sucking vampire" who recently moved to russia ... I have serious doubts about the intelligence of the readers and writers who are surfing on the Information Higway And I did not started about the hoaxes, which are circulated by millions of people in the genuine believe that they are helping the world.. I still remember the panic when this one was sent Internet cleanup day http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/6271/inter030.html [ more ]
Registered Member Are there more lunatic or idiot internet surfers than those who are intelligent users of internet info? [ more ]
Registered Member I fell over the phrase: a popular misconception Hydraulic design and maintenance is not for the mass , crowd out there, it is very specialized work. But with these simplified statements, some idiot out there will put his life and others life in danger because he read something on the internet. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Hydraulics Oil Cleaness
Guest See table one in this article. http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?...0Cleanliness%20Codes [ more ]
Registered Member Dear Phoo, The recommended cleanliness level for a hydraulic system depends on several things. If your hydraulic system is using a servo valve and the pressure is above 2500 PSI then your cleanliness level should be 14/12/10. (Pall's recommendations). At the other end of the scale is a simple hydraulic system with a gear pump and running at pressures under 1500 PSI. It's cleanliness level can be 19/17/14. The components and pressure determine what the cleanliness level should be. Pall puts... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Filter Size?
Registered Member Engine oil filters - do they bypass? As in a car's; they bypass continually, more restriction the more they bypass. Makes a magnet valuable as well as a baffle plate to reduce turblence so heavy particles can settle (and I do realize in an engine that's a small reason in comparsion to the others). Look at your system as unique as it could be. Again in the industrial application I'd follow along with Gary's advise. [ more ]
Registered Member Josh Miller, can you sign your name as JoshM, to avoid duplicating my nickname here? First come first serve. [ more ]
Registered Member Dear Josh, Just to put things into perspective on filtration numbers: Good engine oil filters are 10 micron and really good engine oil filters are 8 micron, both "absolute" values. Nominal is NO GOOD as you want to be absolute on your filtration if your going to pay additional cost per filter. Gary B has it right, as some oils will indeed have additive packages that get filtered out. My experience is that 8 micron absolute has been safe for everything I have touched. Typically 10 micron... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Justification for full-time lubricators (people)
Registered Member Sam I agree with you that lubrication is not just squeze two shots with a grease gun, just like a lot of people think. (Un)fortunately I have a small crew (mechanics, mechanics working as millwrights "pumps" and Electric Instrumentation Mechanics). The only way to achieve improvement is to train everyone. My remarks about the HR types was based on the fact that it was difficult enough to explain that EI mechanics also lift 50 pounds control valves and use 30" pipewrenches [ more ]
Registered Member Generally when a mechanic is out doing lubrication he/she will be pulled for every other job anybody can come up with and their emergency job will take priority over lubrication. To get the job done on time correctly everytime will take dedicated manpower IMHO. Where does the buck stop? Who did it last incorrectly and left the cap off the oil bottle - the guy off on vacation or a different shift or the one that just retired. I want accountability with the lubricator instead of me. If someone... [ more ]
Registered Member In my plant the mechanics perform the lubricantion tasks mentioned here for lubricators. Why to split the industrial mechanics job description in two? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Wear particle size
Registered Member As stated by another, physical measurements are a more accurate measure of residual life. If you wish to persue oil analysis techniques, I can think of two methods. The ratio of small to large particles is a good indicator of abnormal wear (more large particles is more severe wear). You could use Direct read ferrography do this, but it is expensive equipment. Perhaps try a manual method to see if it works for you. The other method is to use a ferrous particle quantifier (PQ for example)... [ more ]
Registered Member Danny, If they are open gear sets that are spray lubed, then would not a visual inspection of tooth profile and contact wear along with some backlash measurements work? This is basically what we have to do on a paper machine with many gears and a central lube system. When we have a spike in the iron count, it is impossible to tell which on of the 100+ gears is the biggest contributor. We rely on vibration analysis then. Gary B [ more ]
Registered Member Danny, Here is a good description of what I think you are looking for. http://www.noria.com/learning_center/category_article.a...ookgroup=OilAnalysis [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Power transformer oil analysis
Registered Member Gazi, It is simple to obtain DGA results. But it is not simple finding the failure from the analysis of these results. It is my understunding that you are having dissolved gases levels well beyond tolerable limits except for CO. You're missing N2 and O2 values. I recommend the following: 1. Take more samples and send them for analysis (be careful, avoid contamination of samples: clean and rinse syringe with same oil, do not use syringe used in other transformers. Clean threads of sample... [ more ]
Registered Member Dear Gazi, Best regards to lovely Pristina and Kossovo from Ankara, Turkey. I have been at the power station in Pristina and have seen those big transformers. Are you talking about them? If you send me your test results I can have a look at them. My email ibrahim.caglayan(at)vibratek.com.tr Gazi if you want you can write to me in turkish also. Ibrahim [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Testing new grease
Registered Member Dear BrianL, I have a test stand that I use to test new greases. I run Timken bearings for 35 hours at 800 RPM while dosing (.012 cu in) the bearing with grease every 15 minutes. I collect the grease that gets pushed out in a tray and have a lab check the grease and the bearings. This method seems to work well as only the better greases tend to pass. Another great part is not subjecting the equipment to the testing. [ more ]
Registered Member I would not exclude a equipment from the test due to past problems with a bearing. Applying seigga813 suggestion you should record actual conditions with current lubricant and compare with new grease. That way you could see if new lubricant can decrease (hopefully eliminate) the bearing failures. [ more ]
Registered Member seigga813, thanks for the reply. I've identified a couple of machines to do the test on. I'll try to remember to post my results. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
oil sampling tool case
Registered Member Hello Dan I am using the case from an old drill I found that the case is just the right height the bottles will stand upright and it has a carry handle.It has room for 20 or more samples.Just look around the shop for one that is not being used.They work perfect and keep the dirt from getting all over the bottles in dirty areas. [ more ]
Registered Member Danny, I use a plastic tool box I bought at Sears or similiar store. I think it is about 18" long by 6 or 8" wide X 6 or 8" deep. Has a tray in it to hold screwdriver, pen, lables, small crescent, etc. Pretty cheap, and stores enough bottles that when they are all full, you want to unload it anyway. Dave [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Power transformer oil Analysis
Registered Member I agree with Pete on this as well. Have a look at the site above, as they have an on-line gas analysis program ( free ). I also think there is internal heating/overloading, but without an excess of acetylene, it does not indicate an highly active arcing condition. I would focus on internal connections and tap changer contact condition, which as Pete said requires a drain and/or de-tank for inspection. For monitoring, as well as thermography, try using a contact ultrasonic probe on the... [ more ]
Registered Member I agree, ask your oil lab. There are quite a large number of expert programs that will check Roger's ratio's Dorenburg ratio's to give a recommendation. Complete analysis would also look at the trends. A simpler method, not so sophisticated or exact is the key gas method. Roughly speaking, look at the highest gas and see what is tells you. Your highest gas is ethylene. That is a hot metal gas indicating hot metal in presence of oil. I would suspect a hot internal connection. Tap changer... [ more ]
Registered Member Dis your laboratory give you a diagnosis ? Try this site for some assistance http://www.nttworldwide.com/diag.htm [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
pure water as a lub on vert turbines.
Registered Member There are two forces acting in a hydrodynamic bearing, radial and tangential. In the vertical turbine the force of the journal is mainly tangential so is appropiate to use the same work fluid as a lubricant. Tangential force is directly proportional to viscosity and length of the bearing so, while lowest is the viscosity of the lubricant then higher has to be the length of the bearing. In the other hand, the tangential force is inversely proportional to the radial clearance, then you have to... [ more ]
Registered Member raw lake water was used as an example to pure water becaused I know that lake water works to lub vert turbines well,but i dont know how well pure water lubs, I thought raw water lubed better because of the impurities in the water. Seems I all wet with my thinking. Thanks electricpete & Mr Vader for your imput. Neal [ more ]
Registered Member If the viscosity of the two are +/- the same, another consideration in lubrication is additives and/or contamination. Are there any minerals present in your raw lake water that should not be a desired "additive" in your application? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Lubricant cross reference
Registered Member Our lube supplier is Chevron/Texaco and the rep provided a list that not only cross referenced other manufacturers lubes, but also compatibility. One thing that must be verified is the compatibility of the different lubricants. If they are not compatible, it can cause serious problems. Gary B [ more ]
Registered Member You could start by lubricant manufacturers websites like: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1378.pdf#search= 'Lubricant%3B%20cross%20reference' http://www.ultracheminc.com/cross.asp http://www.ccoilco.com/webpage/crossreference.html http://www.selectlubricants.com/ http://www.ecompressedair.com/lubricant/lubricant_cross.shtml [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Grease analysis
Registered Member 2 more articles on grease analysis which are more relevant to my application ie slew bearing of a pedestal crane: http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp...bookgroup=Hydraulics http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp...ookgroup=OilAnalysis Anybody knows a toolkit for grease test and also a lab in Asia for grease analysis? [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks Electricpete! Yes, I'm aware we don't normally test a grease but in this case it was suggested to do so because of a lesson learnt somewhere else. [ more ]
Registered Member Take a look at the first article here: http://www.herguth.com/white_pages.htm I would say in general these are not exactly the same tests as for oil. Sampling can be tricky as has been discussed in other threads here. To my knowledge, most people don't do any grease analysis. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Oil analysis in Vibration School.com
Registered Member The problem is with the capitalization of the picture file name. The html page points to a file with only the first letter in caps. But the pic file is named with all caps. The first line below is how the html is coded... the second is how it should be coded. An easy fix for the web master. http://www.vibrationschool.com/vibeschool/mans/Oil/Fig02.jpg http://www.vibrationschool.com/vibeschool/mans/Oil/FIG02.JPG jb [ more ]
Registered Member I can not see a picture in Key02.html either. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Forklift oil change
Registered Member Do not use a car jack. They are not designed for that application. We have a large fleet of fork trucks and our shop has a 7 ton electric hoist with chain slings to raise the unit. Then jack stands are used to stablize it. May want to check with the manufacturer to see what they recommend. What ever you do, do it safely!! Gary B [ more ]
Registered Member I have a 350 engine w/pump and go from the top side. If jacking up to access underneath; crib up w/cross ties or adequate jack stands. [ more ]
Registered Member Normally we drive the forklift on a small elevation close to a drain pit, the other way is to make a drainbox, 2 ft x 2 ft x 5 inch high, construct some weels or bearings and roll it under the forklift. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Desiccant filter/breathers: Blue Cobalt Dichloride Dye vs. Gold Phenolphthalein Dye
Registered Member The dessicant we use in the air dryer is the gold type. The blue one is still there, on top in a small bowl, put more as an visual aid. If it turns pink too much, you have to dry it and take the moisture out. Just put it in the microwave!! It will turn blue again. I did it because the question arised why the gold one was replaced, but the blue indicator was "forgotten" by maintenance. The gold one is not reusable, I always wondered why the gold was used. Probably "marketing forces", the... [ more ]
Registered Member Line 120 Verify dessicant cartridge. If it has change to blue, replace it. Blue??? It is gold!!! [ more ]
Registered Member The debate is about the safety of the blue versus the gold. I guess it is not much of a debate as no one seems to have concerns. Terry O [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
How long is the life of lube oil?
Registered Member The life depends much on the storage conditions, for instance the "practical limit" for diesel fuel is 6 months, because of the aging process. Like a friend of mine found out at the wrong time. I had to tow him back to town on a rainy sunday afternoon. He had filled his tank with diesel from a barrel standing one year in his yard, before he left camping Since there are hydrocarbons also in lubricants , I would be very cautious if it is older than two years. Especially if the vendor cannot... [ more ]
Registered Member If the last use and testing is perform in May 2006; for how long you consider the obtained values valid? [ more ]
Registered Member If you look at the OEM recommended shelf life for oils and greases it can vary widely, from as short as one year to 10 years or longer. There are various reasons for the shelf lives: routine formula changes every few years accumulating to make the oil very different after several small formula changes, additive packages settling or plating out, normal oxidation, unknown storage conditions, etc. A 4 to 5 year shelf life with good storage conditions (temperature controlled (10 to 40 C) and out... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Utilisation of Used Oil
Registered Member Know... that depends on the type and level of detail of the oil analysis; if any is done. electricpete described emmission testing in another discussion as a way to indirectly check additives presence. [ more ]
Registered Member My only problem would be , knowing the condition of the aditive packages [ more ]
Registered Member Anurag these filters will remove solids up to 5 microns. That takes out silica (dust), metal chips, a piece of a broken gear If the additive added is some liquid "perfume", running the oil through a filter will not have any effect. Take water, put some spoons of salt in it, and stir it untill all salt is dissolved. Running the mixture through these paper filters we use to make coffee, would this recuperate the salt? You have to know the physical and chemical properties of the additives to... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Bearing oil sightglass venting question
Registered Member Hi Pete, We have a couple of these Westinghouse Lifeline motors, but ours have a different style lower bearing sight glass. The sight glass itself is not vented, but we have a seperate fill tube connected to the sight glass that is vented. You can see it here: Westinghouse motor sight glass configuration My guess is that the plug in your sight glass should have a "T" vent hole drilled in it. All of our sight glasses are either vented or have a tube going back to the reservoir from the top... [ more ]
Registered Member If you have an extra plug try drilling a vent hole in it. See if that works , if it does then you know you have venting problem. You can then try and find a filtered vent to install permanently. [ more ]
Registered Member Dear Pete, Constant Level Oilers usually have a mechanical plunger that separates the fill cavity from the system when the fill cap is removed (Pat. 1933). By using this type of mechanical separation between fill point and closed loop lubrication, the fluid level remains "constant". Your system may be similar, yet I cannot confirm by the photo. Simply investigate if your fill plug contacts a rod which may be spring loaded. This rod is usually spring loaded to force the fill area closed... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
oil analysis
Registered Member tthew, You are correct in judging that the end users typically don't know that the spectroscopy report doesn't give the whole picture. I just finished doing a round of cold calls to wastewater industry facilities and asked that question and most of them didn't know the limit was that small. [ more ]
Registered Member Good explaination Mr Pete. I don't think that many people realise the limitations of particle sizes when haveing a spectroscopy report. This alone has little chance of picking up excessive worm wear in a worm/wheel box does it not? It all goes to prove you shouldn't just accept the first suite of tests your lab offers you. [ more ]
Registered Member Ferrographic testing sees mostly ferrous particles, not the other stuff. Direct reading ferrography quantifies the particle count of these ferrous particles in a small (<5um) and large (>5um) size range. Sometimes called wear particle concentration meaning some people think it is a good thing to track to see machine wear. Analytical ferrography costs a lot more and involves a human examining these particles with a microscope to attempt to characterize their nature and orign. Emission... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
periodic oil/air mist to revitalize grease?
Registered Member Mostly I was just throwing an idea around for disussion. One thing I wasn't thinking clearly when I implied the air/mist could flow right in the inlet and right out the drain. Would either have to stick a poker up the drain to clear the passage or insert a tube into the inlet with enough room around it to allow for air to escape the same point. I wouldn't want to pressurize the cavity or make air escape from the seals. The motors I am thinking about are the one's I mentioned in the thread... [ more ]
Registered Member Hi Pete, Are you talking about a particular type of grease or in general? If it is a particular type of grease you can consider to change to something less viscous having the same NLGI rating and also considering your operating conditions. Otherwise you have other options like using an Ultra lube grease gun which will provide informations like when to stop greasing or whether the grease is already in the bearing or not! Then you can easily find whether your equipment is under greased or over... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Sample Points of grease from a Motor bearing during running!!!
Registered Member Hi Pete, But we dont know whether this silica content is directly coming from the grease inside the bearing or from the outside environment(as u know steel plants are always dusty). You can see the pics in the attachments. You can see wear particles from the bearing also. Anyway what we are thinking of is to grease the bearing fully and when the excess old grease come out, we could be able to get a sample. Maybe this is the only feasible practice.ryt? Maybe this will over grease the bearing... [ more ]
Registered Member Probably from the bearing drain where you'll usually find a plug or a relief. It's not a perfect location since you'd really like to get the grease that's in the bearing, but it's better than nothing. As you probably know, silica, if it came from inside the grease cavity, would be an indication of possible contamination. [ more ]
Registered Member Hi pete, I thought grease analysis can be used to support our vibration analysis like what we are doing with oil analysis!! But the sampling point... difficult Yesterday, we got a sample of grease taken from a motor bearing (from the grease drip hole..i don't know what they call it)and we found it full of silica.. Wear pattern is difficult to analyse!! [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Grease ISO-VG Specification?
Registered Member Yes, viscosity of the base oil is an important property and is not addressed in the NLGI grade. The viscosity of the base oil is not a secret, it is available from the manufacturer and should be considered along with other paramters in grease selection. For the Mobilith SHC series discussed in the other thread, the viscosity of the base oil is part of the grease identification. SHC100 has viscosity grade 100 for base oil, SHC46 has VG46 for base oil, etc. All in the SHC series are NLGI 2... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Momentary loss of oil in drain line.
Registered Member I have never seen that. I will talk through my thoughts on the subject. If it is like machines I am familiar with, their is a reservoir below each bearing (oil ring grabs from the reservoir and pulls up onto the bearing). You have a continuous feed into the reservoir from your oil supply through an orifice. The oil drains from the reservoir when it overflows a dam. In steady state the quantity into the reservoir should equal quantity overflowing the reservoir dam into the drain. Now why... [ more ]
Registered Member Joe, Do the shaft vibration levels change coincidently with the oil stop? I have not seen or heard of the oil flow stop, so I am trying to understand it while you live with it. Walt [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Lubrication of Ball Bearings running at high temp.
Registered Member May be Machine Temp... [ more ]
Registered Member What is m/c temp? [ more ]
Registered Member LGHP 2 is a premium quality grease, mineral oil based using Polyurea (di-urea) thickener. It has excellent lubrication properties for a wide temperature range from -40 ˚C (-40 ˚F) up to 150 ˚C (302 ˚F). http://www.maintenanceproductsdirect.com/Performance_Be...e_p/skf-lghp%202.htm Standard greases: http://www.maintenanceproductsdirect.com/category_s/53.htm Specialty greases: http://www.maintenanceproductsdirect.com/category_s/54.htm [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Mobile equipment lubrication
Registered Member We do not assume any of the oils we recieve from our supplier is clean enough to use upon delievery. As a matter of fact we try to pull oil samples of the bulk oil when it is delievered to verify what we are getting is reasonably clean. We have had bulk oil delievered before that has been highly contaminated with water and would not accept the product. We expect reasonably clean oils from our supplier and we assume the responsibility of polishing it ourselves. That is the only way we can... [ more ]
Registered Member For mobile equipment we target -/16/13 according to ISO4406 for fill oil (ie coming out of the nozzle in the shop). I am not a filtration guru by any stretch, so how you get to this level is a question for the experts. We have found however, that even if your lube supplier guarantees they put it in your tank at -/16/13, it doesn't mean it will be that level by the time it gets to the nozzle, especially if you have significant pipe runs from the bulk tanks. You might find you need some more... [ more ]
Registered Member Sherman, On your hydraulics I would filter the oil to 10 micron absolute unless you are have servo or proportional controls and then you may have to go to 1 micron. Be careful of dirty filter indicators on any portable filter units because they go into bypass before they indicate anything. I would recommend if you use a portable filter unit add pressure differential gauges on it. As far as filtering the lubricating oil for your bearings I would go to the manufacturer of the bearings and ask... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Online Condition Monitoring: The customers (plant operators) needs.
Registered Member Easy to use. [ more ]
Registered Member The common answer is low cost, reliability, and useful data. Online monitoring has not entered mainstream application. The high cost and complexity typically limits the application to a few "prime movers" or very critical process machines. Are you cooking up a new online monitoring system that defies the odds against success? Walt [ more ]
Registered Member Special need: Why oil analysis should be better than vibration analysis? From upstream oil & gas industry [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Procedure for CT-500 Viscometer
Registered Member Hi guys, I got some stuffs from the net. But still i'm looking for the procedure to get the required viscosity using our CT-500. Can anybody help? [ more ]
Registered Member You should contact the manufacturer: http://www.cannoninstrument.com/home.htm Dave G. www.reliabilitydirect.com [ more ]
Registered Member Hai, Why nobody is interested to comment on the Viscometer procedure? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Using waste oils
Registered Member We used to do that as well, back when we were on a 6-month based oil change in our gearboxes. The gear box and chain guard would be drained, then the used oil from the gear box would go into the chain guard. However, I would be careful about using oil that has a lot of visible wear metal, since the particles can get in the pins and rollers and cause problems there. [ more ]
Registered Member Guess that is OK, but I would be careful about which types of oils I mixed. Because additive packages are either basic or acidic, mixing them can neutralize each and precipitate out a mud (salt) that could attack the chain, sprockets, or shaft. Mix only like additive packages and they will not attack each other. Gary B [ more ]
Registered Member Ron, We do just that. Used gear oils of 220 or higher. We have been using waste/used oil for chain drives for a couple years now and have not seen any negative issues. jb [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Oil Analysis
Registered Member If you do oil analysis, like particle count, you can tell where from the inside the wear is happening, only by checking hydraulic oil for metal particles can tell you which part is desgasting. Sand is an indication that somewhere dirt is entering the system (leaks). If you find copper, where will you look? Big hydraulic machines, like escavators use a lot of oil. Would you put a vibration transducer on the track motors, to measure vibrations? Would you take a waveform on the valve bank to... [ more ]
Registered Member I mean a large volume of lube oil being used by a machine eg >1 drum. I understand those reasons that you stated but I was asked why should we do oil analysis because eventually everything eg bearing wear will be detected by vibration analysis. So why should we do oil analysis if I already do vibration analysis? [ more ]
Registered Member By high volumes, do you mean large reservoirs or lots of leaks? We sample many critical machines looking for cleanliness and wear materials. On the large systems that we do not regularly change oil in, we use the data to monitor the additive package in the oil. It is the additive package that gives oil its characteristics and allows it to perform as expected. Some of the additives are consumed and must be replaced. By sampling the oil, we can verify the additive package and determine whether... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Lubrication intervals
Registered Member Pete in your first article: and The reference to Alemite fittings was what I was looking for a long time. I have met them on oilfield equipment. http://www.devcocorp.com/american/alemite.htm When I started I was working on portable drilling rigs and was familiar with the alamite plunger drain fittings on hoisting drums, catheads and other rolling components. I have searched for these plunger drains in vain on electric motors. Also have seen motors full of grease, because the escape path was... [ more ]
Registered Member Here are more recommendations from EMS = Electric Motor Servicecenter (you may need to register with email address and password to get access) http://www.emservicenter.com/EMSUniversity/grease_relubrication_intervals.cfm [ more ]
Registered Member This article provides a summary of greasing recommendations in EPRI NP7502. t http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?...okgroup=Lubrication2 (follow the link for Table 1) I think every motor manufacturer, every bearing manufacture has recommendations. Also you can find recommendations from EASA and many other places. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Lubrication Room
Registered Member here is a link to a related thread Terry O [ more ]
Registered Member Oil filtration Machine * Oil dispensing will be daily, oil filtration I'm assume will not. Locate the Oil machine at a corner out of the way to the transit to/from oil/grease drums/barrels. * Consider space required to operate and service the machine. How arrange the oil storage drums will depend on how the "clients" will be served their oil? * Drums resting on horizontal on a rack, each drum equiped with a valve to serve the oil to smaller containers (5 gal?, 1 gal?) * Drum portable pumps? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Ultrasonics for lubrication
Registered Member Danny, We started using a simple grease gun mounted ultrasonic device just while greasing motors. It took a little while but we (the lube techs) have learned our assigned equipment "sounds" and now we can use it on other mid and high speed bearings for troubleshooting and to verify that our lube frequencies are on track. If we hear something different or unusual we then get vibration and or oil analysis started or change the lube frequencies. I would recommend that you try a simple one out... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Transformer Oil Condition Monitoring
Registered Member I'm not trying to be picky on terminology, but I want to mention that the oil is not used as a lubricant in transformers, it is used as a coolant and dielectric (electrical insulator) I haven't ever heard of a periodic oil changeout for transformers. But if the transformer is non-critical you may just sample very infrequently or not at all. The primary purpose of sampling is to check the condition of the equipment (signs of electrical faults developing). Checking the condition of the oil is... [ more ]
Registered Member For transformers, is there a capacity/size limit for lubricant analysis to be economical below which the strategy is just change the oil periodically? Is there a standard or paper on Lubrication for electrical equipment other than motors, generators & alternators? [ more ]
Registered Member Waylon, I am from near your area and have successfully used a company for my transformer testing. (77 transformers) PM me and we can talk [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
TBN & TAN in Engine
Registered Member Rich, thanks for your comments. Can "Adopting online oil analysis with SmartSkidTM" replace the periodic offline oil analysis at Lab for all those parameters cited above? [ more ]
Registered Member Josh, While the RULER is a very good tool for managing the oxidative life of an oil, and testing incoming oils for concentrations of anti-oxidant additives, it does not address most of the criteria you list. Your list includes Ageing Limits, however it does not monitor the concentration of anti-oxidant additives in the tests you list there. Instead, it relies on FTIR-Ox and TAN to see progression of oxidation after the anti-oxidant additives have been essentially completed. There is also... [ more ]
Registered Member DavidG, can RULER monitor all these parameters? 1) Goal based limits Parameter: Caution to Critical Cleanliness 14/11 16/13 Wtr content 0.3% 0.5% TAN 0.2 0.4 Fuel 1.5% 5% Glycol 200ppm 400ppm Soot 2% 5% Flash point Drop of 30o Drop of 50o 2) Ageing limits Parameter: Caution to Critical Viscosity +/- 5% +/- 10% RBOT -30% -60% FTIR-Ox 0.3 1.0 Zinc -15% -20% Calcium -10% -20% TBN -50% -75% [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Interpretation of Oil Analysis
Registered Member Hi Kris & others, are you guys still there? We appear to use the same terminologies for lubrication parameters ie Caution & Critical levels. What other parameters have you used? [ more ]
Registered Member Catalin, To interpret oil analysis data effectively,you should understand common failure modes for your machinery,contaminants,oil degradation by-products.Oil analysis data integration is affected by several factors including sampling techniques,size limitations of lab spectrometers,Topup added oil,component replacement.... To begin with suggest to takeup basic interpretation training. Regards Bala. [ more ]
Registered Member When you say wear elements are you talking about Wear Particle Concentration from Direct Reading Ferrography or ppm of specific elements from ICP? Either way, in our applications we have MAXIMUM (vs percent change) type of limits which are provided on the report by our oil analysis vendor (Herguth). We do use percent change type limits parameters like viscosity but not for WPC or elemental analysis. Now you know how we do it. Seems to work well and it is based on an assumption of periodic... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Acid Build-up
Registered Member Thank you Rich and Shaun for your reply, I was not clear in my original post. The four bearings that failed are in different locations. It is a little different from the typical OSB machine. This particular machine has several large rolls that press the fiber against a single very large roll through a steel belt. The rolls are hot, so there is significant off-gassing during the press operation. The seals of these bearing housings rollers are not very tight, since we found significant fiber... [ more ]
Registered Member Dear David, My experience with OSB production has shown that formulation of lubricants suggested by the press manufacturer has changed in the past two years. Based on your post involving bearings and oil, I am at a bit of a loss as to which area of the press you are referring. Oiling of the roll rods and outfeed chains has been problematic as of late due to the chemical reaction between the released gases and the lubricants. This is made more evident by the increase in reaction at the upper... [ more ]
Registered Member David, Formic acid requires water molecules to be available for each molecule of formaldehyde, and may not be as simple as bubbling formaldehyde through water. However, with oil, normally there isn't that much water. But, formaldehyde could still act as a Lewis acid, but I'm not sure that would be enough to corrode bearing steel when we are talking about a small amount wafting into an oil reservoir. The oil would tend to protect the bearing from such corrosion. Better to test the oil to see... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Turbine Oil Moisture Requirements
Registered Member Would this amount of water be enough for your requirement? (Please see attachment) [ more ]
Registered Member I had never heard of a moisture requirement. However I recently had a Consulting Mechanical Engineer inform me that if the oil was to dry the bearings would suffer from electrolysis or electrical discharge. I've seen electrical discharge problems several times in the past, but all were due to some sort of grounding issue. The moisture in the oil was a new one on me. [ more ]
Registered Member I don't think there is any minimum water content. Only a maximum water content. [ more ]
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