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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Shell Grease Compatibility
Registered Member PAULENGR-very well stated. I agree that the Mobil Polyrex product is the most universally used motor grease and is suitable for all but the most extreme applications. As for compatibility I agree that the newer formulations have better mixing properties and the old grease compatibility charts might not reflect current practice but in JAXN14's case I'm not sure if he is willing to take a chance. If it was me I would gradually switch to the Polyrex product when changing bearings and/or motors... [ more ]
Registered Member MOST motor bearings are greased with a high temperature non-EP polyurea grease with a base viscosity right around 95-100, NOT lithium based. So right off the top I'm suspicious that you're using the wrong grease system, not just an odd viscosity. The vast majority of motor manufacturers and motor rebuild shops as a consequence use Mobil Polyrex EM or Polyrex EM 3 and nothing else. Once in a while this gets them in trouble with the high pressure roller bearings where a high temperature... [ more ]
Registered Member Does that mean ISO VG220 is suitable for motor bearings? cause from what I know typically ISO VG100-150 is preferred. What are the consequences if higher viscosity base oil chosen? What do you mean by overkill? pricy? and can you please define "normal" application? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Greasing shielded bearings ????
Registered Member Lee, In answer to your question about sealed and shielded bearings. Sealed bearings typically have rubber seals on each side. These seals make rubbing contact with the inner race, there is no gap. Everyone agrees that these can't be relubricated. They are normally only specified for harsh environments because the rubbing contact of the seals actually shortens bearing life, so they will not last as long as a shielded or open bearing in a good environment. Shielded bearings have metal or hard... [ more ]
Registered Member David We have three deep well effluent pumps in which we replaced the upper plain bearing for a flanged SKF bearing. The bearing is 2RS however the housing has a grease nipple fitted to which we fit a 6mm tube with a nipple at the assembly top plate. The path of the grease is into the bearing and out through the rubber seals. I understand how greasing outside of 2RS bearings would not allow grease into the bearing. In our case the force of the grease slightly distorts the seal but we know... [ more ]
Registered Member Some info you may already be aware of: - AFBMA number is provided on the nameplate of motors. - AFBMA Suffix PP stands for double shielded (i.e. 65BC03 JPP3) and suffix EE stands for double-sealed (i.e. 65BC03 JEE3) - Manufacturer p/n's often identify seal or shield. For SKF it is ZZ for double-shielded and 2RS1 for double sealed. All of the shields I have seen are metal. Seals by their nature require a rubbing contact so they will usually be at least partially rubber. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
viscosity conversion at different temperatures
Registered Member Thank you for your response Pete. But like you said, the ASTM D341 equation only applies to petroleum products and propylene glycol does not fall under such category. I ended up using the Jouyban-Acree model to acquire the appropriate equation. Thank you Nurudin for a response as well. [ more ]
Registered Member For ASTM D 341 better using graph just plot two known point and we can predict the othre. for online software, we can use this link http://www.widman.biz/English/...ors/Operational.html [ more ]
Registered Member The spreadsheet is limited to petroleum products at temperatures where the are above 2cSt. More details: The general form of the relationship eqn used in the spreadsheet is log (log(Z)) = A - B log T (from ASTM D341) ASTM D341 gives various expressions for Z depending on what range you want the forumula to be accurate over. Specifically: Z = (v + 0.7) from 2E7 cSt down to 2.00 cSt Z = (v + 0.7 + C) from 2E7 cSt down to 1.65 cSt Z = (v + 0.7 + C − D) from 2E7 cSt down to 0.90 cSt Z = (v + 0.7... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
The right grease for electric motors
Registered Member I asked one of my technical advisors about this. The prevailing data most important to grease spec in this case is " DN value. DN =Bearing RPM and bearing diameter in millimeters. Use the shaft diameter for journal bearings and the pitch diameter for anti friction bearings. The pitch diameter (dm)is the arithmetic mean of the outer diameter of the bore. Experience with various bearing sizes and speeds is also factored into the range of DN values for various grease consistencies and physical... [ more ]
Registered Member Here is a chart that supports the comments about shear stabilized polyurea thickener being more compatible with others than the old polyurea http://www.mpc-home.com/GreaseCompatibility.pdf In fact, the bottom row for shear stabilized polyurea suggests it is more compatible accross a spectrum of grease thickeners than any of the others lsited. Not incompatible with any... borderline compatible with only a few... compatible with most. Then again, I have been cautioned against relying on these... [ more ]
Registered Member Make sure, if any of them are sent out for repair, that you specify the type of grease the repair shop uses. I have been involved in a number of cases where the repair shop has been unaware and put in their standard grease and have had incompatibility issues in the field. Howard [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Bearing Grease Calculator
Registered Member We have a mature ultrasound program where I work and it works great for identifying bearing failures very early. I'm a huge proponent of the technology. We don't however use it as the sole decision maker for greasing. Keep in mid that the basis for using ultrasound to grease bearing is only ball bearing at greater than 300 RPM. IMO, it also doesn't work well on small bearings and leads over-greasing anything less than ~1.5" diameter. [ more ]
Registered Member I use Grease Calculator link I like that this app not only provides grease quantity and grease frequency, but also provide ISO VG recommendations. [ more ]
Registered Member I would also suggest this. Acoustic lubrication provides more precision in the correct application of grease to bearings that use it than calculators and equations can. All maintenance is conditional and when you have the opportunity to use technology that tells you the condition, take it! Best Regards, Michael Meehan, CMRP, CRL [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
SHC 220 vs SHC 630 Mobil oil
Registered Member We used to use a lot of Mobilgear 630 in our Falk gearboxes, but we have since switched to SHC 220 synthetic oil. They are both a 220 weight, we have also phased out Spartan EP 150 and went with SHC 220, with manufacturer's ok. Mobil lube experts will tell you that you can usually go up one viscosity grade if you're going up to a synthetic grade. [ more ]
Registered Member Thank you for your input. [ more ]
Registered Member As I said one has to be cautious on naming the product you have an interest in. I don't think there is such a thing as Mobilgear SHC 630. In my previous post I attached the product data sheet for the Mobilgear SHC Series and you will note that there is a Mobilgear SHC 480 and a 680. Note as well that these are called "Gear Oils". Now there is a series called Mobil SHC 600 Series Gear and Bearing Oils which includes a product with a 630 designation. Note the use of "Mobil" as opposed to... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Polyrex EM vs Mobilith SHC100 for electric motors
Registered Member That is interesting info on the SHC100 and the fan pillow blocks. We are using this grease in our fans and have had good luck with it to date. [ more ]
Registered Member Pete...Yes I am saying SHC100 did better in "some" applications than polyurea (more so with shear stable) Yes I am saying EP additives cause problems in lightly loaded bearings like double row sphericals on a fan No...I didn't mean to indicate polyrex had EP additives and SHC100 didn't...in fact SHC100 does some EP additives. However the synthetic fluids in this grease have proven to counter act the effects of EP additives. The same results can not be expected with a standard lithium complex... [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks all. That is good info... I’m still digesting. One question for P ZRT... I can’t quite make sense of this: Are you saying the pillow block bearings had problems with Polyrex and did better with SHC100? Are you saying EP additives caused problems for this particular application? Are you saying the Polyrex had the EP additives that cause the problem and Mobilth SHC100 didn’t? (I associate EP additives with Mobilith SHC100, not Polyrex EM). [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Electric motor Over-lubrication
Registered Member Thanks Dan..! And a Merry Christmas to all of you out there...!! [ more ]
Registered Member Guess what happened now? We just lost another motor to under lubrication. I suspected as much, because the same thing happened to another motor the same size about a year ago... Both motors were only a year or so old. Motor shop confirmed it two days ago for me, <drat> Talk about throwing money out the door... [ more ]
Registered Member Here you go Rod. www.uvlm.com/ If you've never witnessed it, try to capture the look on your lubricators face the first time he hears the grease hit the bearing. Keep on Rockin'! [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Water Ingress into Turbine Oil
Registered Member Reli, 1. Breathers have been installed that prevent moisture. 2. Mentioned a dry air purge and is being considered by management. 3. Seals are being evaluated. We have 2 like units. Recently we found that one unit had 70 lb. seal steam valved in and the other did not. It was interesting because that unit, with the 70 ib steam valved in, had a large amount of water getting in the oil. I requested that the sister unit have its seal steam valved in, and guess what, water was getting in that oil... [ more ]
Registered Member Dear Jones, Sorry to join late but I have a exactly identical situation in one of my turbines drivig a boiler FD ban with S/R gearbox(4500-1500) . I tested oil cooler by 1.5X D.Pr OK. some common things in these units about h20 ingress is. 1. water content ramps up during a stop & start. 2. valves pass --- seals leak ...... 3. steam ejector system may be inadequately tuned. I tried to my best to solve the possibilities but failed Now I am installing Thermojet filtration to keep the... [ more ]
Registered Member Dave, Oil cooler was taken out of the oil/water loop when tested. When unit is down the water seems the worst (think this because when starting the unit more water is removed than during operation) and typically the exhaust steam is still valved in when down. With cooler valved out the water is still present. Recently found that some steam valves designed to allow the condensate to go to drain may have been closed or not open enough for proper relief flow. Training still on going for... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Replacement frequency for Cooling Tower Gearbox Oil
Registered Member Our plant is Power plant where we use 14 Cells Cooling tower. All 14 cells cooling tower gearbox lubrication oil is Servo system 100(Mineral oil). Now i would like to go for synthetic oil, will i conserve energy of Motor., Will i able to reduce my Auxillary power consumption by adapting synthetic oil. Can any one comment on this if they experience. [ more ]
Registered Member BSPARKS what desiccant breathers are you using? [ more ]
Registered Member Here are some comments from Amarillo regarding CJC filtration: Does the filter blindly strip out the additives in my oil? No. Some additives exist in the oil and are considered sacrificial. That is they attach themselves to very small particulates to enhance their size so that they can be removed by filtration. Once filtration begins, the particle is removed from the oil causing a reduction in particle count and additive concentration. The additive has done its job, as well as the filter. In... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Greasing bearings while offline
Registered Member If you guys send me an e-mail, I'll send some info on our auto-lube system john.morgan0402@gmail.com [ more ]
Registered Member Out of curiosity I googled the cansiters and found several. The perma's I used are still there, but they say they only generate 58 psi through gas generated pressure. The Electrolubers I most recently saw tested say they generate up to 200 psi through dispensing the lube by a small screw conveyor. I didn't read much about the canisters when I was at my customers site, but after reading about them, I like the way they are supposed to work. The customer and I had talked about what a good one... [ more ]
Registered Member I think I can just replace the threaded zerk fitting with them...I like the idea of a box test with them on the 1 month setting...maybe even with some controlled pressure on the box to simulate the expected radial pressure. Thanks for the input. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Grease alternatives chart
Registered Member http://www.graco.com/content/d...40580/340580EN-A.pdf A short listing from Graco Lubricators. When in doubt test compatibility. [ more ]
Registered Member the grease you mention seems to be based on a polyurea type of thickener. those greases are known for their wide temperature operating range and long useful life under high temperatures. their composition is quite different from the more standard lithium based greases that are widely used. no doubt other grease manufacturers will be able to supply a comparable type of grease that could do the job just as well. but mixing these types of grease may lead to problems and is better avoided. if... [ more ]
Registered Member if you are looking for alternative check the technical data of chevron you will find the base oil and thickener and so on, then you can find the alternative using this data. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Mobil 629 vs 630 or 634
Registered Member The 220 will be too thick and you may run the risk of starving part of the mechanism of lubrication Play it safe and use the right lubricant. [ more ]
Registered Member The Drill is quite old but I believe it called out Mobile 629. The building never drops below 20 degrees, so temp it not an issue. Other than the ISO, theres not much diference looking at the specs of both oils. [ more ]
Registered Member I would check with the OEM of the drill but if that isn't possible then address the issue of what the environment might mean to the choice of lubricant. If for instance the machine is used in an unheated area and subject to your cold temperatures, then the 634 should definitly be ruled out but as you point out the 629 and 630 are very similar. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
lube oil selection for F.D. Fan bearing
Registered Member I agree with you 46 or 68... I would go with 68. 460 is ridiculous and will cause the bearing to run much hotter than it needs to. Here is SKF's method http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/...g=en&newlink=1_0_119 Slide 2 shows bearing dimensions from which we determine mean diameter Dm = 167.5mm Slide 3 shows SKF's figure 5. We enter with horizontal axis Dm=167.5mm. Find intersection with curve Speed = 1800rpm curve. Read accross to vertical axis showing Min viscosity ~ 7.5 cSt Slide 4 shows... [ more ]
Registered Member Srinu, The fan bearings of this size and speed require ISO VG 46 or 68 grade lube. You are right, you could use VG 46 grade lube. We at our FD Fan for boiler used VG 46. For criteria for the lube selection, i would send you something by tomorrow. Regards Mohammad [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Lubrication of pneumatic cylinders
Registered Member Mike, Like you, I always thought that was why you had lubricators in the air system. Danny [ more ]
Registered Member Have to agree; normally opened/normally closed. Could be a safety issue on wipeing the shaft though, especially if it's an automatic actuator. Blow them off or keep an accordian hose over them to protect them. Hopefully this is your worst problem or just venting? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Oil level fluctuates in bearing housing
Registered Member Blocked/partially blocked vent in sight glass or bearing housing, small hole at top of sight glass must be clear for gauge to work correctly, see image Air seals on bearing housings are dirty where shaft enters/exits the bearing housing Oil ring not turning all the time Dirt moving around inside of housing blocking oil to sight glass All can cause oil level to fluctuate Dave [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
What makes grease harden?
Registered Member You may want to do a quick "age-profile" on your grease extension tubes. This means using the inside tubing diameter to determine grease volume per foot. Knowing how many pumps are typically delivered, and how often, you can determine how old each slug of grease is as you get closer to the bearing. I've seen extremely long grease extension tubing installed in the interest of safety or "convenience", with the result being grease aging in the tubing to a year or more before it finally reaches... [ more ]
Registered Member Saw this Lube Tips: Why Does Grease Harden? "What causes the hardened cake-like material to form in grease- lubricated bearings?" This is generally due to oil separating from the thickener. While it is normal for small amounts of oil to blend from the thickener over time, a grease with excessive bleed characteristics may harden in the bearing prematurely. In some cases, too much time has passed between relubrication. The solution would be to shorten the interval, say from one year to six... [ more ]
Registered Member Lack of flow ?(ie old grease sitting & no fresh grease being pumped in ) Also too low temp rating ? & maybe lithium base causing hardening ? Try a high temp synthetic grease. Co. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Tripping on High Lube Oil Temp?
Registered Member No its another machine. Though it too has similar problem of very small scale. I checked the cooling water valves on lube circuit and found them to be fully open manually. [ more ]
Registered Member yahoo, Is it the same turbine for which you complained about high mist generation earlier ? [ more ]
Registered Member Dear Josh it tripped on normal running [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
High Water Content in Oil
Registered Member I'm going to throw in some thoughts. My experience is with gearbox lubes of similar viscosity. - The ppm limit of every oil is different. Many oils won't hold 200ppm at room temp, much less 500ppm. Try to find free water too. - That said, the saturation point of the oil is certainly the highest possible limit for use in PdM, since a higher limit will never work. The approx saturation limit of the oil can be obtained by a phone call to the lubricant manufacturer. [ more ]
Registered Member Qoute: - Water content, MAX 0.05% THE UNIT OF DISTILLATION IS IN PERCENTAGE, NOT IN PPM Nurudin $ others Is it true that the water content won't be specified in the oil composition in the product data sheet by the oil manufacturer? [ more ]
Registered Member I thought the table in the bottom of Page 1 of the spec sheet that states water content to be less than 50 and 100 ppm should be able to convince them. How long have you joined them? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Cooling Tower Gearbox Wear
Registered Member The issue i would have with that product is it's an R&O Gear Lubricant. Most rust and oxidation inhibited (R&O) gear lubricants do not contain antiscuff additives or lubricity agents and the OP has a gearbox with known scuffing issues. His issues are very likely the result of transient overloads at startup caused by an induction motor experiencing a very high load inertia. R&O lubricants are considered good for gear applications that are typically operating at relatively high... [ more ]
Registered Member You are absolutely correct John. Thanks for pointing out my error. I only looked at cross reference and did not take into consideration the Amarillo OEM specs. So, after consulting the chief chemist and a CLS, Ive attached information on the specific lubricant that has been used in this type application with great success. [ more ]
Registered Member I too can guarantee there is some air moving around that gearbox in spite of the rain cap. D [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Grease lithium base instead grease polyurea base
Registered Member Epete, I actuall called the technical services dept. of Mobil and asked them about it. A fellow named John ? told me about it. I had suspicions after reading all I could find on the subject on the web. The purging is not that difficult, and if you use a stick (wooden) to clean the hole out with, whether rectangular or just the 1/4 " round, you can tell what is going on. The pressure limiting (20 psi) fittings ensure you don't put a lot of pressure in at once (these guys love the electric... [ more ]
Registered Member The literature I am talking about is a January 7 2002 letter from Elizabeth Bennett (Mobil) to North American Mobil customers discussing compatibility of Polyrex with other greases. I'll bet your rep can track it down if you ask. As I said "marginally compatible". I added the word marginally although that wasn't used in the letter. I wasn't recommending anyone to mix them. I sure don't understand the purging procedure. Do you have any literature on it? I haven't seen any square fittings. [ more ]
Registered Member E-Pete, Mobilith SC and Polyrex EM are the two greases I'm talking about. The Mobil tech support said "No way" should we be mixing those two greases. He (the tech support) also said that , yes, I could flush the mobilith out with Polyrex, and increase the grease cycle for a couple of times. We have a lot of Reliance motors that have the rectangular grease overflow. We wiped them with a wooden dowel, and greased. We let the motor run awhile, while we did another one, then came back and... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Ball bearing identification
Registered Member Try 6315 in the CSI Warehouse... also see Converting AFBMA Numbers Or order SKF Pub. 140-430 June 2000 [ more ]
Registered Member There is a frequency calculator at www.skf.com . Look in upper half of your screen about center of the page for "Calculations" then scroll down to frequency calculator. You may also have to dig a bit for dimensions to input into the calculator. John from PA. [ more ]
Registered Member Dear Gary B u have asined bearing no 6315C3 against 75BC03J3. It is not matched with CSI Warehouse which has 100000 bearings of different companies I am using 2130 analyser of CSI Regards faisal [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
greasing - minimum clearance
Registered Member Grease will flow within that small space. There won't be much but it doesn't take much either. However it can be sensitive to upset condition. Does the bushing have distribution grooves? Are the temperatures stable? What is the consistency of the grease, and is it the OEM recommendation? Also with that small clearance, it will be sensitive to edge loading due to misalignment. Has the alignment of the rotating element been confirmed? David [ more ]
Registered Member If it's on a "Farval" type system with the one or two way pistons delivering grease, I would certainly look at those valves and ensure they are pumping grease when expected to (and that grease is actually getting to the end of the line where it enters the sleeve). Those are the Achilles heel in most of those type systems. D [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks for the response Dave. Apologies for my delay in replying but I have been on holiday. This valve is greased as part of our turbine greasway system via an automatic grease pump timed to grease these valves every 16 hours I believe. Will have to get back to you on what pressures this operates at. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Greasing frequency bearings of motor and fan
Registered Member For the fan, the re-greasing frequency may be in the order of weeks for spherical roller bearings (depending on the bearing type, size, operating conditions....) I agree with Pete regarding sealed for life bearings. It is definitely worth considering. Heinz Bloch has written about that. I think he recommends considering sealed for life bearing when D*N<50000 http://maintenanceforums.com/e...561041312#2561041312 SKF also has info on the matter. Regards, Elias [ more ]
Registered Member That's a pretty good link. It goes through almost all the factors which might affect greasing interval in one place. SKF's recommendations seem to continuously evolve (perhaps other OEM's as well). Now back to the subject of repacking. As I mentioned SKF used to recommend hand repacking every three regreasing intervals (it's in the SKF Bearing Installation and Maintenance Handbook". Now their recommendation has evolved to a little more reasonable approach, but still requires periodic repack:... [ more ]
Registered Member SKF has the final words regarding relubrication interval. Pl. follow the link http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/...g=en&maincatalogue=1 Regards Irshad [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
How much Iron PPM is too much in hydraulics
Registered Member Dennis, I have had a look at Rolly12's website, I two work at a mine site (coal)and finding the information you require and getting suppliers to come up with the correct number is very difficult. Over the years I have used the following for my sites. If my good clean system has Iron levels of <20ppm that is acceptable. >80ppm I would resample to check the result. If this level remains then I would reduce the monitoring frequency back to weekly. >120ppm I would carry out a filtergram... [ more ]
Registered Member Dennis, You may want to visit my website under articles portion and download the Oil Analysis tables, I have a list of limits for iron and other metals for oil and hope you find it useful. http://www.rsareliability.com/articles.htm My Warm Regards, [ more ]
Registered Member Hello DenisD I am not really great at this oil stuff but I will give you my 2 cents worth. You would probably get more traffic on the Noria board. I have no idea what type of number to apply to iron content. It will undoubtably depend on the types of machinery which you didn't define very well. It will also depend on your surroundings which you said was a mine (iron ore by any chance). If I were doing this I would group machines by their individual types and environment and then work from... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
ISO code - 2 numbers or 3?? Which is best and why?
Registered Member Thanks Richard! [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks Pete! [ more ]
Registered Member I think if you are dealing with sliding numbers, the clearance may be on the order of 0.0005" or 10 microns, so the smaller particles are not of concern. I agree with you, for rolling bearings, we should not be ignoring the smaller end of the range. Then again, even at 4 microns we are still not getting the really important ones around 1 micron....right? I'm not sure why it is that we don't go even smaller... guess it could be some of the reasons you mentioned (repeatability) [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
When to use lifetime lubricated ball bearing?
Registered Member I think you have to evaluate the application. The factors that push you towards shielded or sealed bearings: 1 - Small or slow speed bearings (low d*n as we have talked about) 2 - infrequent operation. 3 - bad environment with lots of potential for contamination. 4 - difficult to access for maintenance. Maybe all these were talked about before except #2. Nevertheless #2 also makes a big difference because infrequent operation means the grease lasts a lot longer. We have a lot of crane... [ more ]
Registered Member I go with Gary B and practicle experience. Lube for life bearings are a last resort in my book for reasons stated but if you can't get to it to take care of it then it's the way to go plus reasons stated. [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks Sky. That's probably the one I was looking for. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Premature wear
Registered Member RIch, Great response, I am glad I read this posting and learned something. Walt [ more ]
Registered Member Almost certainly wrong lubricant. This worm gear is a sliding contact application, with a softer bronze pinion. EP additives are only for rolling/sliding contact where both contacts are ferrous gears. EP doesn’t provide protection in this contact and can contribute to bronze corrosion and loss. Only oils with compounding agents or PAG synthetics have the necessary polarity and lubricity to maintain an effective sliding contact film to protect the surfaces. AGMA ISO 18792-A19 provides... [ more ]
Registered Member You should go for a higher dp/module set of worm and worm wheel, which should satisfy your load requirement [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Repeated Lube oil filter clogging
Registered Member Thanks Nurudin.. It sounds sorth trying. I will do a deep dive in this aspect. [ more ]
Registered Member Hi RELI, Your existing oil (2nd) is classified as ASTM type II oil, which having extra additive for Geared Turbine (EP) and additional anti-oxidation performance. Unless there is no significant wear debris is found in the filter, It may just fluid compatibility issue. I am worry with the additive which may react with your new type filter element. I have some customer that having similar issues. Mostly it happen with paper filter type. Changing to the suitable type of filter element may solve... [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks for your time and response Dave, I have replied to your queries above. after all the tests and with limited clue we are hoping that some contamination was left behind during oil change and It shall settle down with couple of element changes. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Phosphorus bronze bearing oil type?
Registered Member You're welcome. It's a tricky picture and certainly not all EP additives the same. I think I see what you mean on wikipedia. I'll post it here for posterity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...me_pressure_additive "Sulfur containing EP additives can cause corrosion problems in gears with parts made of bronze, brass and other copper alloys when high temperature environment is encountered." [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks for the extra info pete, I also had a look on wikipedia and it doesnt look like the EP additives and yellow metals should be put together without some prior research. Could be a very expensive mistake for the case I'm referring to. Potentially 12 units with one bronze gear per unit at $140K ea. + 3 month rebuild time per unit. OUCH! [ more ]
Registered Member Hi all, Many thanks for all your interesting inputs, much appreciated [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
High temperature in turbine oil
Registered Member from what i had so far for turbine/compressor, normal vendor practise: 46 deg C for ISO VG 32, 52 degC for iso vg 46 oil, as for vg 68, if have not encountered yet but 58 seems close to its ideal operating temperature. you can always refer to viscosity vs. temperature chart for all viscosity grade. if you see no abnormality after running more than 1 day at current temperature, then it should be ok. one of the thing that i have experienced with if you have bad bearing desing is morton effect... [ more ]
Registered Member That is a big jump, I was thinking more of a smaller increase over a period of time. Akhtar's right. The biggest concern is viscosity in the load zone. The oil temp is the only variable to your lubricant film thickness. I would be concerned that you may not see the increase in temp in the bearing rtd's/thermocouples before you wipe the bearings. [ more ]
Registered Member Normal cooler outlet temperature is 40ºC, we are having problems at heater exchange because pipes are blocked for a kind of mollusk we have in our river. It is not a normal operation status, bearing temperature is near 70ºC (average). Inlet oil temperature is over 65ºC. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Hot pillow block bearings
Registered Member Don Thanks for the link. Just as the authors stated in the article, our mechanics also tightened the belts using a belt tensioning device using Fn measurement. This device is still a fairly new unit for us and was not there that day to oversee the procedure. A thermograph was used to identify the "hot" DE bearing but most of the article dealt with L10 calculations rather than efect on temperaure (or did I miss something?). The article also showed only the DE bearing having high temperature... [ more ]
Registered Member I have seen the overtigtening of v-belts create excessive bearing temperature. Vibration was smooth but later the bearing failed. High frequency, gSE started to climb then the failure mode continued. Think of the amount of pressure/stress being applied to the bearings if the belts are overtightened. Bearing training classes have mentioned this too. To tight of belts can really create heat and then add with that maybe overgreasing and you could have a great deal of heat. I'll see if I can... [ more ]
Registered Member Don The other fan has been running for over two years since it was overhauled. I dont think the belts were overtightened. We've set up a good procedure for belt tensioning, alignment, runout, etc. Do you have past experience of overtightening belts causing excessive heating of the bearings?? I've nev er read about that before. Right now I'm on vacation in OBX so I dont have actual readings to provide off top of my head...I can say that the baseline readings (velocity) were very normal...but... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Brass gear corrosion from oil
Registered Member Correct on the incompatibility of EP oils and brass/bronze metals. Correct that elevated temperatures, particularly in the presence of moisture, manifests the corrosive attack. You should consider the use of PAG lubricants for work gear apps. PAO and Min Oil are barely OK, but fair more poorly as the temperature climbs. PAG's are particularly well suited to sliding friction and dissimilar metals. There are many useful options available from the likes of LE, EL, Castrol PLD, Kluber. Take a... [ more ]
Registered Member Thank you all ! First of all, the oil used is called IGO-220. As I said before it's a PAO synthetic base along with paraffinic mineral base, an antifriction treatment is included. I t does contain sulfur as an additive. These machines work indoors. I've been monitoring the operational temperature for a year now. In the winter months, when the ambiant temperature is a little lower, the range of working temperature is between 62°C to 68°C. In the summer months, the ambiant temperature is a... [ more ]
Registered Member Yvan, most lubricants that have EP additives are using sulphur, phosporous or chlorine compounds in the additives. These are fine for steel on steel applications but as you've found out not with bronze. This is particularly true at high temperatures which are often common in these applications due to the high degree of sliding. There are good synthetics out there for worm gearing, one that comes to mind is Mobil Glygoyle 460 but you should be guided by OEM recommendations. I note that you... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Turboexpander Lubricant problems..
Registered Member Assuming the bearing operational temperature = 92 Degree C The oil viscosity will be: Mineral VG 100 (VI 100) = 14.6 cSt at 92 degree C. Synthetic PAO 46 (VI 170) = 10.28 cSt at 92 degree C. Here we have to consider: 1. We lost 4 cSt, and hopefully it is still acceptable by tribology calculation of the bearing. 2. If We choose synthetic PAO (PolyAlfa Olefin), I don't think so it will helping much. Because PAO is still "Non-Polar" which having same characteristic as Mineral Oil. 3. I prefer... [ more ]
Registered Member Mohammad! You said that you change Lube oil viscosity 100 to 46 and temp bearing increase? I think when you reduce viscosity machine will lower temp bearing because more flow thro bearing. Regards [ more ]
Registered Member We have special purpose built equipment to remove hydrocarbons from lube oil. Please contact me at my email address for further information. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Why grooves in plain bearing?
Registered Member The grooves I am familiar with are straight distribution grooves which run along the two top edges of the bottom half of a sleeve bearing. They help distribute the oil into the bearing. Or more specifically they provides a tiny reservoir of oil ready to be dragged into the clearance between bearing and shaft by viscous pull of the shaft. In sleeve bearings I am familiar with, the distribution groove is filled by oil rings. If the oil ring is erratic and momentarily stops delivering oil,... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Opinions - sealed bearing or water-resistant grease?
Registered Member pete, excuse my late reply...this is a vfd but roughly motor shoul be running around 1740rpm. [ more ]
Registered Member Metalworker Mike, have you considered INPRO/SEAL Bearing Isolators ? These are labyrinth seals which keep in grease and keep out water and contaminants. I believe they can be retrofitted in most standard TEFC motor end bells. We had good experience with fitting them inboard of the drive end bearing of large 800 Hp / 300 rpm vertical pump motors. These motors have Open Drip-proof enclosures, and because they are installed outdoors, rain water found its way down the rotor shaft into the lower... [ more ]
Registered Member what speed? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
SHELL and MOBIL
Registered Member Zaheer, There are a lot of Additive manufacturer in the world, and the famous are: - Oronite - Lubrizol - Infineum - Etc, The additive package (which are manufactured by them), are purchased and consumed by Lube Oil Manufacturer (Like SHELL, FUCHS, MOBIL, etc). Lube oil Manufacturer will blend the base oil + additives, to become Lubricant. Each additives manufacturer are having technology. The technology may vary from one additive company to others. YES, the chemical composition become... [ more ]
Registered Member I'm not sure why this has been so difficult. There are many different types of additives and are arranged in many different recipes depending on manufacturer and product type. A very rough estimate on product make up would be 80% base oil and 20% additives. So if both products are using a paraffinic petroleum base then roughly 80% of both products are the same. If Shell uses detergent x and Mobil uses detergent y then there will be performance differences albeit minor. Maybe Shell uses... [ more ]
Registered Member Dear John I was told that every lubricant manufacturer has their detergents different which are used as additives in base oil??????????? Your have also mentioned that there is smewhat difference in additives.... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Oxidation Rate Increases with Temperature
Registered Member Gentlemen, Thank you very much for your time and your contribution to my question. I realize that there is some reading/researching that I need to get started on to better grasp the thoughts that you have put forward. Once again, your contributions are appreciated. On another note Electricpete, did you ever solve your problem with the High levels of Phosphorous in your Turbine Oil? Thanks [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks, I understand what you mean now. I have seen a minimum temperature applied also. [ more ]
Registered Member not that i know of, but maybe some proprietary tests could be designed that correlate well with actual practice. the 100 deg C is arbitrary - most applications run on a lower temperature, whereas for example engine oils and oils for automatic transmissions may run at much higher temperatures. as far as i know it is more or less a rule of thumb: "above 100 deg C every 10 deg C temperature increase will double the rate of oxidation". no doubt there might be a more scientific type of... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
DGA Limits for OLTC
Registered Member Well, I had a DGA fault on one of our OLTCs. After comparing the values with IEC and the duval triangle method, it shows signs of T3 which is severe high temp fault of more than 700 deg C. Upon inspection, only slight burn marks on the plug in contacts can be seen. I wonder if this can be even consider to be a finding since the OEM said that this kind of phenomena is common with LTCs. [ more ]
Registered Member Doble definitely has a LTC DGA Guide. I have a 2001 report from Doble client subcomittee on LTC DGA and it seems like a good guide. I'm sure it has evolved. Here is the page for the IEEE working group on LTC DGA. They haven't issued a standard yet. There are alot of documents listed. Some you can download and some you can't (the links are annotated to tell which ones are publically available). http://grouper.ieee.org/groups...7_139/wg_c57_139.htm The last link is a nomograph presentation... [ more ]
Registered Member Electricpete, Appreciate if you could tell me;if possible; the related papers. So that I can persuade the management to get it? Going to join the Doble community soon and will have access on the papers. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
phosphorus higher in sump than in new oil
Registered Member Hello Shanos, We have detected "elvating" levels of phosphorous in Shell Turbo T46 through submicron particle analysis from 50nm to 2 microns....steam turbine driven. The root cause was cross contamination leak from EHC fluid. More than happy to assist. Cheers. [ more ]
Registered Member Hello Electricpete, Did you ever solve your problem with high Phosphorous in your lube oil? I've been having a similar problem with my turbine oils and the one common factor with the units that have been affected is that water contamination existed. At first I thought that maybe the use of a vacuum dehydrator had some effect on it (heat affecting the chemical composition of the lube oil causing Phosphorous to drop out of solution [if that's even possible] or even possibly contamination from... [ more ]
Registered Member Sound like it's the new oil problem. Have you contacted your oil supplier? They should know their oil characteristics fully whether it's emulsifying or chemical raction etc.... Has the oil brand or specs changed in the 2005 whole sump change? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Correct oil for sleeve bearing machines
Registered Member It sounds like you have good advice. We use R&O for these type applications. I believe the reason is because it is cheaper and we don't need AW. One thing to beware if you use certain AW/EP additives it can create problems in presence of zinc (such as in brass slinger rings). I'm a little fuzzy on the details right now... maybe someone can refresh my memory on that problem. [ more ]
Registered Member Ed's explanation in very good. The only exception would be if the oil was dual use with some hydraulic function, such as a hydraulic servo valve control. Since your feedpump is motor driven, perhaps there is no such control in the system. I have seen some reservoirs where they also feed a hydraulic system that requires an AW additive for proper operation and wear of the hydraulic components. Otherwise, R&O is the way to go. Rich Wurzbach Maintenance Reliability Group www.mrgcorp.com [ more ]
Registered Member Ed, Thanks for the reply. That confirms my thoughts. I also checked with my local LE rep. who concurs with your info. Muchas Gracias [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Pressure relief grease zerks and drain plugs
Registered Member I am interested in this topic, as well. Our factory has a number of applications where it is very difficult to get to the grease drain plug to remove with the equipment running. I would like to be able to grease these motors during the shift with Ultrasound. I was thinking that it may be a good idea to install these relief zerks in new greasable motors with no means of relief built into the design. We would only install these zerks in new motors or in motors that have been observed to... [ more ]
Registered Member Overall, are they worth the change? Do they perform as described below? The pressure relief drain valve would eliminate the need to remove the drain plug and run the motor for 20 minutes. That's a nice labor savings if you could just start up and turn the equipment back over. The pressure relief grease zerk would help eliminate the possibility of over-greasing the bearing, thereby reducing failures. [ more ]
Registered Member We have used them on draw works of drilling rigs, imagine a long shaft with cathead, air clutches hoisting drums and brakes. Regards [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Lubrication on Vertical Motors
Registered Member I normally spec yearly regreasing of electric motors. The usual exception is a more frequent cycle listed by the OEM or component manufacturer. I have use a hand vacuum pump to clear old grease from a narrow drain. It works quite well, just make sure to use enough tubing or an expansion chamber so you do not aspirate grease into the vacuum pump. [ more ]
Registered Member EP, I too have never seen grease come out of a piece of pipe or round 3/8" hole used as a drain in a bearing cavity. I teach to use a wooden dowel to reach up inside and ensure there is no hardened grease blocking the hole, but I've never seen any come out anyhow. Now with some of the Reliance motors (and maybe other manufacutrers I just haven't seen) there is a rectangular channel about 2" wide by 1/2" deep that runs down from the bearing and has a gasketed plate over the end of the... [ more ]
Registered Member They are opposite, but both on top side of the bearing correct? One on top and one on top would be "flow-through" design which is not compatible with shields. As stated above (and more below), I am skeptical of relying on grease flowing anywhere other than in a lump based on our experience anyway. I'm not sure if Coutte action was the correct term, but I was referring to pumping action which occurs when there is a thin annulus formed by 2 cylinders with relative motion/rotation between the 2... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Grease degradation on sealed type bearing
Registered Member Pete, Sorry I'm so late with this reply... I forgot to check this post. What we saw from the overheating was shortened bearing life. We had some bearings start degrading 6 months after installation and we had had several "premature" failures in the past few years. I was observing the installation of the new bearings and discovered that they were being heated to 300 or more degrees (F) "because the hotter they are the easier they go on". Our maintenance guys had no idea that there was a... [ more ]
Registered Member Or maybe I just misunderstood the comment. When you said bearings were routinely being overheated, did you simply mean that you routinely exceeded the 80C recommended by SKF and other manufacturers? [ more ]
Registered Member Ed - what kinds of problems did you see from overheating the bearings during mounting? Was it immediately evident? What were you using as a temperature limit before, and how were you heating (induction heater or other) (just curious) [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
water content limit
Registered Member Hi Jasmine, ASTM 4378_2008 Standard Practice for In-Service Monitoring of Mineral Turbine Oils for Steam and Gas Turbines. You can purcahse that at ASTM web site. That std Table -3 provides guidelines for interpretation of Test data and recommendation. According to that water content limit is 0.1 % , ie water content exceeds 0.1% you have to investigate for potential causes and fix. In general in steam turbine water vapor ingression in the lube oil system is possible due to poor intact of... [ more ]
Registered Member The only official reference I have on hand is ASTM 4378-97 that shows a warning limit of 0.1% or 1000PPM. Way too high IMHO. That standard has been replaced by ASTM 4378-08 which might have some updated info but I don't have a copy so I'm not sure. Personally I wouldn't run at 1000PPM without taking some immediate action to knock that down. I like 200PPM as a target. Is there an ISO code out there somewhere? [ more ]
Registered Member Oil Labs have limits for water in turbine oil. They will alarm given water ppm meets that level. Typically we want to keep the water ppm below 200 in our turbine generators. This is an ISO 32 oil. It has been significantly higher than 200 ppm without wiping bearings but it will cause reduced life of the oil and can create rust of internal components. Of course, the lower ppm the better. Recommend checking with the oil and machine manufacturer and the labs you do business with for details. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Looking for water "soluable" grease
Registered Member What I think you're after is a cleanly washable grease, not a water-soluble grease. Find a grease from your suppliers that doesn't contain 'sticky base oils' or polymers to make it tacky. If you'd like to send me a PM I could point you in a reasonable direction, though I am not a salesman, only a lowly analyst. [ more ]
Registered Member Hi, I cannot offer you any suggestion on a water soluble EP grease, I suspect such a thing may not exist. As an alternative approach, could you consider using a better cleaning solution than phosphate/water? When the CFC cleaners where banned a few years ago, there were huge advances in cleaning chemicals. As a backup strategy, suggest you talk to some companies making cleaning chemicals which would allow you stay with the petro grease/ Bazz [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Temperature at which grease will melt
Registered Member I get lithium-based EP grease from lowerfriction.com which is good to 800C (that's 1472F). I would imagine that they have EP2 greases as well. I'm pretty sure they have greases that can withstand even more heat than my grease is good to. It's not really cheap, but it's not bad. [ more ]
Registered Member DO NOT KNOW MELTING POINT. BUT ITS DROP POINT IS 182 DEGREE CENTIGRADE. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
oil flinger disk (vs ring) experiences?
Registered Member I think people are very cautious on trying new products like this one. [ more ]
Registered Member Have you tried it, Pete? [ more ]
Registered Member Another alternative would by nonmetallic rings. This happens to be a hot topic for us (trying to make some decisions soon). If anyone has any thoughts, I would appreciate hearing them FAST. Thx. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Bearing grease in a dirty environment
Registered Member We don't have much contamination problem. Just thinking out loud, in addition to overlubrication, contamination is another big killer of bearings. I would think proper techniques to ensure cleanliness during regreasing are even more critical when greasing machines in a dirty environment. Such techniques might include cleaning the machine fitting, pumping a dab of grease from the gun and wiping off that dab before just before you connect the gun to the machine. Use suitable clean lint-free... [ more ]
Registered Member ignore the previous email - sent by accident. how do I delete it ? David G send me your email address & I'll send you an article i have which I ciopied from the net BUT don't remember the sources regards Glenn Halyburtong@onesteel.com [ more ]
Registered Member Danny, I am in the same position as you are, starting a PdM program in a dusty construction materials plant. I believe that overgreasing occurs when a lube tech cuts the greasing interval by factor of, say, 2 due to a dusty or high temperature operating conditions but still pumps in the same amount of grease suggested for a perfect one. Obviously this leads in the best case to a full cavity (if there is a drain plug ) or, in the worst case, both bearing and cavity. On the other hand, by... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Gearbox oil foaming
Registered Member Hi Baker, Thanks for the suggestion. We are planning to do the complete oil change during next opportunity (shutdown). This equipment stops only during shutdown. Hi John, Thanks for the suggestion and for the calculation example. We will carefully check the oil level again. Best Regards Maha [ more ]
Registered Member Maha, since you topped off the oil and then the problem developed I would carefully check to see that you have the proper oil level. Some systems are designed that the gear dip in the oil, some are not. If you are pressurized the gear should probably not be dipping, but if the gear casing is also a reservoir oil at the top of a sight glass for instance may very well have the gear slightly dip and cause foaming. You can get a rough estimate of the gear radius and compare that aginst the level... [ more ]
Registered Member It might be a good idea to check to make sure that the oil for top off was not cross contaminated in some way BEFORE being added to the gearbox. If nothing is found.. it may be time to bite to bullet and change the oil again with a detailed same oil flush. Filter the new oil during the fill. Sample new and old for futher testing. J Baker [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Lube oil coking
Registered Member I researched a bit this subject and found this which I would o share with others: http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp...bookgroup=Hydraulics http://www.oilanalysis.com/learning_center/category_art...bookgroup=Hydraulics [ more ]
Registered Member I researched a bit this subject and found this which I would o share with others: http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp...bookgroup=Hydraulics [ more ]
Registered Member I wonder whether it's the same problem discussed at length in this forum: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat...r=754379&an=0&page=0 [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Any advice on setting up a lube program?
Registered Member Hi Jonny, A bit late to the party, when it comes to a lube program i don't like the word program i prefer incentive, there are key things you need to do you may have already done this we offer service and solutions for complete turnkey lubrication solutions both grease and oils so would be more than happy to chat further. identify your lubrication equipment and separate them into grease and oil locate the amounts levels, quantity and cleanliness levels of each system create records of each... [ more ]
Registered Member Nick, A free download is EPRI's Lube Oil Predictive Maintenance, Handling, and Quality Assurance Guideline https://www.epri.com/#/pages/product/1004384/ Its been around for a while, but hits all the important points of setting up a successful program. When it comes to grease, consider the compatibility of the existing and proposed new products when suggesting consolidation or product changeover. Articles I wrote on this is at Machinery Lubrication:... [ more ]
Registered Member Hi, Thanks for the advice. In the meantime if anyone understands or has an idea on how to establish the list as stated above please let me know. I have to establish a grease standardization program for a fleet of diverse equipment. If there is a methodology to follow please submit it. It will be helpful. Thanks in advance [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
ICML Versus STLE Certification
Registered Member What was your decision after all? Did you get any conclusion? I am also thinking about taking one course but I don´t know which would be better; OMA by STLE or MLA by ICML. The latter has the advantage of being cheaper and you can take level I and II for almost the price of OMA I and at the same time. But I don´t know about the quality of both and the prestigious as well. [ more ]
Registered Member Good Day Folks, Better late than never.... I'll start by saying that Rich has made some very accurate observations. One point worth consideration is the timing and reason why the Noria folks left the OMA commitees. As the OMA requirements were being developed and both Jim and Drew were involved at the time. An executive decision was made that precluded the involvement of those directly involved with the comittee and the delivery of a training package. That was one of the main reasons why... [ more ]
Registered Member Terry, I didn't mean to imply that ICML is strictly plant level and STLE is labs and oil pros. You have crossover in each, but I think if I focused on the bulk of the makeup of each, it might break down along those lines. ICML is kind of the caboose for the Noria Training train, if you will. You'll probably see few individuals taking ICML certification exams that aren't coming off Noria training in some form. STLE does have training at its conferences, and at local section meetings, that can... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Over greased bearing behavior.
Registered Member If you put to much grease in a bearing temperature will rise due to churning. The standard behavior of new/recently greased bearings is a rapid temperature rise after the first start and subsequently a drop in operating temperature to more normal temperatures during the next hours - if the excess grease can be worked out of the bearing (enough room and no seals). If the bearings are really overfilled (which should not happen when the pump manufacturer knows how to apply grease to a bearing)... [ more ]
Registered Member Yeah, 220F is getting warm. That grease won't last long at those temps. When we rebuild lathe spindles we go through a lengthy "run in" process where we monitor vibration and temperature. Spindle speed increases with time, if temps on the front spindle reach 130F the spindle is slowed down until temps stabilize and then ramped up again until max speed can be reached. This process gives the grease time to work its way out of the bearing without generating too much heat. It's not a pump but an... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
"purging" incompatible grease
Registered Member Ok, but who is it that you are disagreeing with. On the surface it sounds like you are saying that my recommendation was that “ignorance of grease types is a safe place to operate”. I doubt that's what you meant, but if it was then I will respectfully disagree with your characterization. I have suggested the only 100% technically correct answer is to change out the bearings/grease, but from practical standpoint there may be room for engineering judgement in the selected approach ....and I... [ more ]
Registered Member Have you mixed these greases in a test sample to see what happens? Mobilgrease 28, being a clay thickened grease, may in fact work well enough in mixture to use a series of regreasings to reduce the amount of 28 to an insignificant amount. The only way to know is to try it. Obviously, high speed / diameter bearings will need to be handled carefully to avoid overgreasing. Of course the other option is to take precautions to ensure the correct grease is always used, whether it's Mobilgrease 28... [ more ]
Registered Member Seems to raise some problems: 1 - If purging means the new displaces the old... how can it happen without mixing? It can't. 2 - Some people are inclined to add large quantities of new grease in attempt to force the old grease out. Creates a whole new problem - overfilled bearing - particularly a problem on high D*N bearings. 3 - I heard someone recommend pressurized air once to push out the old grease. What are the odds it would really work completely and how complete and what other problems... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
group 1, 2, 3 lube oil?
Registered Member Thanks everyone. I did find on that website a link to a pdf http://www.prod.exxonmobil.com/refiningtechnologies/pdf/base_oil_refining_lubes_daage_france070601.pdf On page 4 of that pdf I found the follownig table: API Group | Sats| Sulfur| VI |Typical Manufacturing Process I |<90% |>0.03%| 80-119| Solvent Processing II| >90%| <0.03%| 80-119| Hydroprocessing III| >90%| <0.03%| 120+| Wax Isomerization, H/C, GTL IV| n.a.| n.a| Polyalphaolefins (PAO) V| All Other Basestocks... [ more ]
Registered Member The was a very extensive post regarding oil groups and the differences on the BoBs the Oil Guy website. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ I think its still there. [ more ]
Registered Member Group 1,2,3,4,& 5 oils refer to the base oil that is in a particular lubricant or grease product. The grouping refers to the processing that has been done to the oil. I don't remember the exact specs, but it deals with sulfur content and % removal of aromatics and the viscosity index of the oil. The higher the group number, the more refined the base stock is. Group 4 as well as 5 is a pure synthetic and anything below that is truly not a synthetic oil, but Group 3 Base oils are allowed... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Generator Bearing Grease Lubrication in Wind Turbines
Registered Member Hi Ron, Ouch, that's not great here's a few thoughts I have just based on what I would be thinking they may be useful or not. What is the grease intervals? Is the Autoluber set correctly? Has it always been Autolubers or a combination? Is grease coming out the shaft side also DE? Perhaps the seal is damaged on the motor cover usually the lip seal type upon assembly? Could the seals be the installed the wrong way around? could the chamber be over pressurised? could there have been an issue on... [ more ]
Registered Member The only info I have so far is a picture with three years worth of grease coming out of a generator that has been in service for 10 months… [ more ]
Registered Member Hi Ron, There should be a bearing cover and seal, I believe there should be OEM greasing intervals? do you have any drawings or pictures or layout to assist? Cheers, Sean [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Effect of moisture in a gearbox
Registered Member Water in lube oil is not good for many reasons. Water is a poor lubricant and it can damage the additive package which governs the oil properties. As a result, that damages the lubricated components. A typical limit for water in lube oil is 200 ppm. Where I work, anything above 200 ppm would raise a flag. For sure, most applications would consider 1000 ppm too high. Catastrophic failures of heavy-duty gearboxes can happen even when the water is less than 100 ppm if there are other issues and... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
standard for oil condition monitoring
Registered Member Online Oil Condition Monitoring is conducted as an extension of the routine condition monitoring procedures. It can help provide accurate and meaningful information on the lubricant as well as the overall health of the asset. Listed below is the functionality of a standard oil condition monitoring system. 1) Oil analysis sensors measure the oil’s dielectric constant. These sensors provide alerts as the oil degrades or becomes contaminated. 2) These sensors then measure optical... [ more ]
Registered Member Hi Aziz, You can use the following standard: - API 614 for your lube oil system - ASTM D4378, for lubrication condition monitoring of your Turbines - ASTM D6224, for the other various rotating equipment. Good luck, [ more ]
Registered Member Aziz offers some good advice. If you are using a commercial lab they can lend their expertize to your endeavor. Most have standard test slates that cover the different tests depending on the type of equipment. Your lubricant supplier is also a good source of knowledge and experience especially the major suppliers. If money is not an issue (?) the best way to get an effective program started is to have an expert come in and do a survey and setup the program for you. This eliminates quite a... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
AHU Bearings
Registered Member We do it all the time using just the analog g's overall provided by the enpac 2500. Works fine. Gary [ more ]
Registered Member I use my box all the time to grease motors with and have taught those I've trained to do the same. I use off route, spike energy with a 5kHz high pass filter. Pump a few strokes and watch the overall for change. If grease is the issue (usually denoted by high noise floor in the low frequency area), then the overall line scrolling across your screen will drop like a rock. It should stabilize at a lower value. Remember too that bigger bearings need more grease, and a typical lever action... [ more ]
Registered Member I use the Demod ( gE enveloped acc on MySKF Microlog to use as a greasing guide. I place accelerometer and give two pumps, wait a few seconds, if the envelop level drops, move onto the next machine. If the reading doesn't change you have damage grease wont cure, if the envelope reading goes up with grease, get a set of spare bearings ready. Should work the same way on the remote sensors, but may mean its a two man job one guy on the analyzer, and one with grease gun. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
acoustic grease gun
Registered Member I have never seen a bearing fail from over lubrication. If you have data and pictures please share. I have seen lots of bearings loaded with grease after Stage 3 or Stage 4 failures by the folks who will try to make it to the next shift or outage. That would be the same ones that don,t believe we can predict the condition of bearings. [ more ]
Registered Member Hi Tom, The main difficulty is, the guys who were doing lubrication here were doing this for years and it becomes their habbit. They will not accept a new guy coming to the plant and telling that they need to chnage their habbits.But offering some incentives is really a nice idea.. Ok, let me try it since it is not from my pocket!! Have a nice day!! [ more ]
Registered Member Hi Jenish, my apologies for jumping to the wrong conclusion. You have a difficult problem. I have found that showing the guys who do the lubrication that there is a direct correlation between them overgreasing bearings and premature bearing failure is a good starting point. Next they have to care and I leave it up to you to decide which is the best way to provide an incentive - all I would say is that in my experience money remains the best incentive. Best Regards, Tom Murphy [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Excessive Oil Mist in gas Turbine
Registered Member Hey Josh. I work for one of the OEM's. Are you using a venturi or vortex style system? If you are using a true Oil Mist System, the system by design wont start producing more mist on its own. Something external probably cause it. If the mist manifold pressure and the air inlet pressure have not changed, then the system should be producing the same amount of mist. If you have multiple points of application and some are plugged, your mist pressure will increase, thus increasing the amount... [ more ]
Registered Member Hello, all: I tell you my experience at SAICA-3 Frame 6 GT. We suspect a high oil demister flow during 2007, we now think it was caused by one opening to the oil tank not correctly closed. We also wonder if this can be the cause of dark colour in the oil which was changed just one year ago. Is your turbine oil colour dark? Abour new oil demisters for oldest turbines, we are thinking to put one at SAICA-1 F6 turbine. We are alse looking non G.E. supplyers (probably cheaper) Oil temperature:... [ more ]
Registered Member More than two decades , I think. But blocking of drain holes immediately after a major inspection is not possible. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Air Compressor Oil - Buy Theirs or Risk Losing Warranty?
Registered Member James, Silicone based lubricants are indeed expensive, and the price you noted seems typical. However, you have a wide variety of options available that can work in typical screw service. PAO, Ester and Blends have been used successfully for many years in screw service. When (if) you make a change be REAL careful to flush the system down completely. Some of the silicone based fluids aren't miscible with lubricants of any sort. RE: Advice provided earlier suggesting that the OEM's select the... [ more ]
Registered Member Sorry. I've been away on a few trips this month, and also training. svanels: I don't want to give anyone the manufacturer, or the lube since it is proprietary, and I would rather not give anyone a bias against the manufacturer. That of course is not my goal. My goal is to make sure that our equipment is cost effective, and is reliable. Your Q's on water cooled and knock out box I'll have to get back to you on.... Mike66: We do not have oil recovery on our drains. Obviously, we have the oil... [ more ]
Registered Member James F. If the product you are talking about is the PAG/Ester blend then that is that particular compressor manufactures selling cost. There is a direct replacement for that product from Summit lubricants (down in your neck of the woods) You might want to contact them. The cost differential for us was around a 45% decrease is base cost. The product meets the OEM compressor manufactures specifications and hence warrantee cannot be witheld (legaly) BTW we eventually changed out this... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Semi fluid grease
Registered Member Semi-fluid means an oil with soap thickener that results in a fluid between grease and oil. There is a wide range of properties between grease and oil so it's hard to generalize much. Semi-fluids are helpful when the lubricant must flow more than grease but oil leaks too much. There is another kind of lubricant I've seen called semi-fluid - this was a food grade gear oil with a highly viscous EP additive package. The EP additives were formulated for performance but the semi-fluid properties... [ more ]
Registered Member semifluid greases are often used in (small) gearboxes that are not oiltight and where the loading is such that heat dissipation is not much of a issue. the semifluid grease has a composition just like other greases: a thickener, a basefluid and often some additives. the term "semifluid" is somewhat misleading - although the "semifluid grease" has a high penetration value it is nonetheless a grease which means that the flow properties differ substantially from a "real" fluid. [ more ]
Registered Member The only time I have seen a semi fluid grease used in a gearbox was a service type that included an operating environment that was quite hot. In a steel mill for instance it is not unusual to see specialized machinery in an environment that could approach process temperatures. These temperatures are often 250ºF to 300ºF (120ºC to 150ºC). At normal room temperature these greases are semi-solid but at the operating temperatures become liquid. Do some research by looking up "drop point". [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
oil analysis tolerance
Registered Member hi dear thanks for useful recommendation . where can i find specific Repetability" and "Reproduceability" for each test? best regards [ more ]
Registered Member thank you all. I understand, and we will choose more samples to compare 2 or 3 lab which appoint the same person and tool. meanwhile, we will check their certification. as long as the result under ISO standard we can accept. [ more ]
Registered Member Oceandeep, How big the difference is? Each of test is having specific "Repetability" and "Reproduceability". for instant: Repeatability : Tolerance different, tested by different analyst inside A LAB Reproduceability : Tolerance different, tested by different analyst, and different LAB you can ask it to your lab. As long as the different is still under coverage of the tolerance, it is acceptable But if the different is too big,... the decission is yours you know better about your equipment ... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Mixing grease types
Registered Member tigershark:Those 2 greases are compatible. They are both Lithium Complex base, 1 uses synthetic oils the other uses mineral oils. You wont have any problems. neemeyer: Bentone base greases are not compatible with most other greases. Take equal amounts of the two greases and mix them together thoroughly. Incompatible greases will become watery and release the oils. A quick and easy demonstration. Inside a bearing once the oils release you will only have the thickener remain. It will typically... [ more ]
Registered Member Hello. I am chasing some information on the mixing of greasers as well. On site we have pumps rebuilt in the work shops and the bearings are packed with Mobil SHC 220, then in the field the lube guys fill the bearing with Mobil XHP222 { as per their sheets}. Could anyone explain in simple terms what the effect if any would be on the bearing life or grease compatibility. thanks in advance. [ more ]
Registered Member We have had the xhp-322 mixed with either the polyurea EM grease or the shc-220. It appears that internal training sometimes isn't enough. We have a considerable amount of low rpm (10-300rpm) bearings that have had similar failures or extreme wear as seen in the picture that Rich has attached. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Shelf Life Vs Service Life of Lubricants
Registered Member The lube may be installed up to its shelf life date then it may require discard if circumstances are wrong for extending service life. Containers of lube do tend to draw in moisture after opened. [ more ]
Registered Member I thought grease manufacturers specify shelf-life for grease in storage only which mean the oil may separate from thickener without any major movement while on the shelf in the store. Once there is movement eg in bearings, the oil won't be easily separated from the thickener. [ more ]
Registered Member I recall the reason for the shelf-life of grease is primarily a concern for separation of oil from the thickener. It seems like stirring prior to use might be an option, although that could be a recipe for possible contamination. It brings up a lot of other questions: what about grease in machinery that is in-service, in-standby, or in the warehouse.... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Voith Working Oil High Temperature Issues
Registered Member Mohammad, i was wrong to assume that this voith coupling is just like normal gear coupling. disregard my initial comment [ more ]
Registered Member Have you checked your cooling system? Water and oil flow rates and water and oil delta-T? Walt [ more ]
Registered Member Things to ask yourself! Are you using the correct viscosity oil for the application? Is this a new problem to the machines? What has changed? Has the quantity of oil been checked? How often do you need to run the compressor at the low speed v's high speed? How long have these been in service? When was the last oil changed? We use a Caltex product in all our voith fluid couplings (torque fluid 32). Since we started using this we found we needed to adjust the oil levels slightly to get the... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Caterpillar Engine ISO Cleanliness CODE
Registered Member Jim Fitch wrote an article on this exact subject: "The Agony of Diesel Engine Oil Particle Counts" http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=712 "Pore" type automatic counters apparently won't be affected by dark oil. For optical counters, he suggests some pretreating methods to get around their limitations: particle resuspension method, diluation method, solvent cut-back method.. [ more ]
Registered Member Electripete, ISO Code can be obtained through an oil analysis instrument called particle counterm however, most particle counter are laser type which means that if the caterpillar engine oil turns black then it is not possible for the laser to read the contaminants. Most of the vendors on particle count I have talked to have not recommended their particle instrument to be used on engine oil due to its sensitivity and does not provide warranty in case the instrument malfunction, while a few... [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks pete! [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Raymond Pulverizer Coal Mills
Registered Member There is a helix pump at the bottom of the main shaft that pushes oil up to the top bearing. I have seen these clog with brass shards from the driven gear. [ more ]
Registered Member With what has happened to our coal mining businesses and coal fired power plants gonzo probably doesn't have a job now to reply from D [ more ]
Registered Member Wow! This thread started in 2007, only the last two additions are current. Yet it has been viewed almost 5500 times. Must be a lot of interest in Raymond coal mills! [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
How long is the life of lube oil?
Registered Member The life depends much on the storage conditions, for instance the "practical limit" for diesel fuel is 6 months, because of the aging process. Like a friend of mine found out at the wrong time. I had to tow him back to town on a rainy sunday afternoon. He had filled his tank with diesel from a barrel standing one year in his yard, before he left camping Since there are hydrocarbons also in lubricants , I would be very cautious if it is older than two years. Especially if the vendor cannot... [ more ]
Registered Member If the last use and testing is perform in May 2006; for how long you consider the obtained values valid? [ more ]
Registered Member If you look at the OEM recommended shelf life for oils and greases it can vary widely, from as short as one year to 10 years or longer. There are various reasons for the shelf lives: routine formula changes every few years accumulating to make the oil very different after several small formula changes, additive packages settling or plating out, normal oxidation, unknown storage conditions, etc. A 4 to 5 year shelf life with good storage conditions (temperature controlled (10 to 40 C) and out... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Issue modifying parameter set information
Registered Member Thanks friend, apparently a user is connected, but it was strange since we even turned off the partner's PC and the problem was still the same, what I did was restart the server and repair the database and now it's normal. Is there any way to configure the session to be automatically closed if you stop using it for a while (example 10 min)? [ more ]
Registered Member You might post this in the Vibration section to get more eyes on it. Adding more information may improve responses to your question. Walt [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Tan oil refrigerant
Registered Member Due to water ingress and resulting hydrolysis, TAN no increases. It is very difficult to bring back the TAN value within limit. Certain ion exchange systems are there but not very effective. [ more ]
Registered Member @aziz58 Thanks for uploading the lab report. I am not familiar with this format but assume that the items with the asterisks (*) are the results the lab is showing concern about. If you have real concerns then contact the oil supplier or the compressor supplier. These results are not bad, but you need to pay attention to some aspects. I think the The Total Acid Number is OK. It may reflect contamination from any remaining oil from the previous charge, as well as current operating conditions. [ more ]
Registered Member acidity/basicity - for chlorinated refrigerants like Freon or R-22, we recommend running a test for Total Acid Number (TAN). For ammonia-based systems we recommend running a test for Total Base Number (TBN). TAN can affect the miscibility of the lubricant in the refrigerant. https://forums.noria.com/topic...trifgual-chiller-oil https://www.tranehk.com/files/...THD_IOM__AUG2018.pdf page 105 Copper is not a good sign, normally there is a coating protecting the copper, once you find copper... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Online Oil Condition Monitor
Registered Member Hi Sohail, We are a bit late to the party we have a suite of sensor technology to help with this called OILSIGHT it works with other parameters too such as dielectric, polarity and oil condition. Please let me know if i can help further. Cheers, Sean [ more ]
Registered Member I have heard EASZ-1 is good. It does report the conditions in the engine lubrication, pipeline, turbines, thrusters etc. But I haven't used it. That's what I've heard from my folks. [ more ]
Registered Member Hi Sohail, We partner with this company called Reynolds Contamination Control Ltd. Check out their range of sensors: https://www.linkedin.com/posts...346451701321728-xNRx Their sensors readily integrate to our online platform, remotesense.io. Please let me know if you require further information. Hassan Sherbaz info@remotesense.io [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
LEAK OIL AT BEARING HOUSING MOTOR
Registered Member Maybe if you give more information the forum members could help. General recommendations: Clean the bearing housing very thoroughly (no residual signs of the oil or grease). Then regularly check the potential locations of leakage, while the motor is running. This step will help you to identify the source point of the leakage. Is this a serious problem? Regards- Ali M. Al-Shurafa [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Regarding replacement of ynthetic oil with mineral oil
Registered Member This is what the maker says... What is the recommended way to remove water from your fluid? Phosphate ester is a heavier than water fluid and normally has very low miscibility with water which allows for good separation. The best way to remove gross water contamination is to use a “wet vacuum cleaner” to remove the water layer from the top of the fluid level in the reservoir. Removal of water which persists as a second phase but is not in sufficient quantities so as to be efficiently removed... [ more ]
Registered Member Absent any LOA data it's hard to pass judgement. I would get Fyrquel involved and talk to one of the formulation engineers as opposed to a salesman. I say this because I've been following an EHC issue for sometime (not Fyrquel fluid) and my standard LOA criteria had it as marginal at best. After talking quite extensively to the product line engineer I found out that the fluid was in every aspect in the "normal" range for the fluid blend and time of service. Boilerplate LOA acceptance... [ more ]
Registered Member The TAN value is increasing and has gone beyond limit. Also since it is heavier than water, water remains on top and is difficult to remove. Also OEM has not provided any filteration system. This is the first time, we are using synthetic oil for lubrication purpose. Any body aware of moisture removal and filteration system for synthetic oil, pl help. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Water Based Lubricant or Hydro Lubricants
Registered Member ❤️
Registered Member Phosphate esters hydraulic fluids are very nasty to handle and work with. I had to deal with it while working on aircrafts and is not anything I am found of remembering. The effects of it on your skin, eyes should it mist is quite nasty. On the plus side it does a great job at removing regular paint and any plastics. Very interesting to fallow this thread on water based lubricants. [ more ]
Registered Member Water based hydraulics are used extensively in tire curing plants where oil based lubricants would be a fire hazard. We used a vegetable oil emulsion in a ductile iron pipe foundry on the casting machines for the same reason. The lubricity is obviously truly awful but once you get over that and design around the very low viscosity, it's not really that much different. "OEM" is one of the major manufacturers of the fully water based systems. The vegetable oil emulsions give you enough... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
OSA4 Microlab - anybody bought one and is it any good?
Registered Member OSA4 is an excellent system. Easy to be used, and having ready oil analysis software database system. From my observation, OSA4 usually used by mining company, Heavy duty equipment contractor company which business is in mining sector, where engine oil analysis are dominant. But for oil&gas / petrochemical, you will analyzing TAN more than TBN. I prefer (for your case) to let the regular/routine oil analysis done by QA / Laboratory department, using the approved and dedicated ASTM... [ more ]
Registered Member I haven’t used it but just based on a web search of several sites and reading the list of features it doesn’t seem appropriate for O&G except for perhaps some limited use. What are your machine types? …the MicroLab can test all types of lubricants from engine oils to fluids for hydraulics, transmissions, power steering, gearboxes and generators. …is a complete analytical system that delivers comprehensive test results for machine lubricants, including engine and gear box oils, hydraulic,... [ more ]
Registered Member I posted this quiry to the forum. And Hope some would reply soon. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
World 1st Lubricant
Registered Member Dear all According to Bill, The first ever lubricant of the world is being used continuously from stone age to 21st century in the rainy days.... [ more ]
Registered Member Let it go at that. Don't go into depth with Bill's explanation. [ more ]
Registered Member Dear William You r right... I was asked this question by manager....I replied water...... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Brass in hydraulic system fluid sample
Registered Member So what your saying is that the system holds pressure and is working as designed! If this is the case then I would be sourcing the machine details/ data sheets to see what components have been made from what materials etc. I would also be setting up a filter cart to try and remove this contamination, with further Oil analysis also recommended. Good luck. Hooch [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Power grease gun recommendation for 100-600HP/2P motor
Registered Member Gents. As to my original post concerning the use of acoustical lubrication, I have also run into the VFD problem. We have a UE Ultraprobe 2000 that is used on VFD units due to the ability of frequency tuning on the unit. Since the inception of acoustical lubrication techniques, written lube PMs'. and data tracking within our CMMS we ahve reduced the amount of grease consumed by 25%, 35% reduction in the amount of bearings consumed from our tool room and a significant gain 13-15% over a... [ more ]
Registered Member One gun I use: Alemite md'l 1056 delivers volume stroke @1.78 grams per stroke while pressure position - 1.14 grams per stroke. [ more ]
Registered Member Walt and All, It is not my intention to do any "product bashing" but you are right, as a community we should learn from and teach each other by our experiences. The product is the UE Systems Grease Caddy. It does a fine job with non VFD driven motor bearings and bearings in general. The "truth in advertising" comment was driven by UE Systems support response which was a very short, "Yes we have heard that". In fairness they did offer to buy it back and I'll repeat, the tool works very well... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Improper Oil Ring Function?
Registered Member I see that you have checked the viscosity. What is the grade of oil, 32, 68? Some flinger rings we use do wear but not very fast. The rings tend to smooth out with the inside dimension opening up. Oil pick up becomes less at that point. I have seen minor hoola-hooping but is more like rocking back and forth during operation. [ more ]
Registered Member Just to clarify, the bearings are above the oil level and rely on proper oil ring function for lubrication. I've read a fair bit of Dr. Heinz Bloch and it actually started me down this path. We are currently pursuing a jet-oil type system to ensure we are getting sufficient oil through the thrust bearings. At the very least this will add filtration and additional bearing cooling since the second thrust bearing currently gets quite hot. We've done oil analysis extensively. There was a lot of... [ more ]
Registered Member One should do an indepth oil analyses first. Type of failure: skidding, dry, spalling, etc... As I said earlier; an attached taper flinger acts as a pump and volume can be controled via angle of taper. In addition: one may want to tie one side to the other depending somewhat or largely on oil analysis. Where do you want to take oil and do you need to incorporate a cooler into the scheme of things? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
When appropriate time to change oil?
Registered Member What ever the conditions, the 5 R'sof lubrication must prevail. Ideally a proper choice of oil analysis will indicate the condition of the lubricant and the equipment. After attaining the proper cleanliness target, monitor the lubricant condition and set the conditions at which you expect to retire the lubricant charge (i.e. when it does'nt fulfil the 5R's). Try to "err" on the "safe side". Remember, when the lubrication needs have been made, the engineering will be allowed to reach its... [ more ]
Registered Member on equipment with oil capacity of 1000 liters and more oil analysis will be carried out. On secondary equipment on yearly base, on critical and vital equipment on 6 month base. Also for running of the equipment according to 1/3 to 2/3 is the best. [ more ]
Registered Member I totally agree with Mike66, an important point to remember is that you still want the machinery to be available as soon as possible in case unit B fails. If there is a task to be done do it at the first available opportunity and make the backup available as soon as possible, this way you won't get caught out. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Varnish removal from Gas Turbine oils
Registered Member Mohammed, Did you get the information you need? Our agent in Saudi has several of our machines for testing and/or rental. See our webpage for the addrsss and phone number. [ more ]
Registered Member Paul, I heard about the change of base stock oils by manufactures and contacted one of our oil suppliers. This is a major oil company. I asked what base stock, Group 1 or 2, do you use for the turbine oil we purchase. The direct answer was both. They use a blend to achieve the quality of oil needed for turbine oil. Is this normal for turbine oil only or all oils? Don [ more ]
Registered Member Has anybody used the Electrostatic oil cleaner for varnish removal from GT lubricant in the Middle East region? What are the results? Is it possible to have practical demonstration of varnish removal from the GT lubricant at site, from any of the vendors like Oilkleen, ISOPur, Kleentek ? Some of the GTs in our company are facing varnish related problems therefore we are looking for the best solution. Thanks Mohammad [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Someone has changed oil viscocity...
Registered Member I had a rare opportunity (rare for me) to participate in testing the effect of oil type on temperature on a sliding bearing. (The reason for the testing - troubleshooting an intermittent hight temperature problem.) The bearing is combined radial/thrust tilting pad bearing (similar to Kingsbury) on top of a large vertical motor. Temperatures monitored at Thrust pad (TH) and Upper Guide (UG) The motor was run unloaded with the following results after temperature stabilization: UG(C) TH(C)... [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks Ed. It is good to have some direct report of results of varying VI and also some good though-provoking comments. Sleeve bearings I have enough literature which seems to provide a good model for heat generation so I can pretend to begin to understand it. Rolling bearings I don't have much at all. I have a lot of questions about rolling bearings that I think would form a good new thread.... will post within a few days. Regarding #1 - The derivation I see in the link starts with a... [ more ]
Registered Member Pete, Good job of questioning! I have been looking through my references as well, and can't easily answer you. I am familiar with the calculations you detailed above as the classic ones taught in machine design. By the definition of lubricity, it should not really have any impact on heat generation if fluid film is thick enough to prevent any contact. With that assumption, viscosity is all that matters, and viscosity is the ratio of shear rate to shear stress. All I can say at this point is... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Grease Interval and Replenishment Qty Spreadsheet
Registered Member Thanks Col [ more ]
Registered Member John, SKF have some freebees that are well worth a look. Firstly there is a database that allows set-up of all lube points with selection and calculations built in; http://www.skf.com/group/produ...n-planner/index.html For iPhone and Android Apps, search on SKF Bearing Calculator. A calculator is available on-line at; http://www.skf.com/group/produ...f-dialset/index.html If you need any assistance, I'm only a stone throw away; call me on 0419947286 Regards Col [ more ]
Registered Member http://www.lubcon.com/en/site/3860/app-store check this apps you can calculate the lube interval and volume just enter the bearing designation [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Bearing Temperature and Lube
Registered Member Based on numbers above and reference above, to avoid making this a special application requiring SKF Application Engineering review, even assuming light load and low Fa/Fr, you’d still need Dm* N < 70% of 350,000 = 245,000 Dm*N < 245,000 N < 245,000 / Dm = 245,000 / 140 = 1,750 rpm [ more ]
Registered Member Mr. R, Sounds like an ideal job for an auto-luber. I agree with Aubrey about the ultrasonic luber, but in a pinch, listen to the bearing with a stethoscope and you will hear when the new grease enters the load zone and quiets the bearing. Then set up the auto-luber for that amount of grease. I agree with others on this thread that the amount of grease called for is excessive. Fan speed also sounds high for the bearing. What is the speed limitations for that bearing with grease? Regards, Ron ... [ more ]
Registered Member Good comments all around. Definitely most greased bearings tend to run hot for an hour to a day or so after greasing. It’s rarely a good idea to keep adding until you see grease appear. However if you’re adding and you do see fresh grease appearing at the drain, then you should definitely stop even if you haven’t added the target amount (and take a step back and think about whether anything should be done about the full cavity… possibly longer-term action). I agree with Steve that it seems... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Lubrication Grease, its quantity and frequency for Motors
Registered Member Thank you trackrunner for the clarification. I appreciate your effort to explain the situation. Regards Vin [ more ]
Registered Member Vin, You're right, sorry for the missunderstanding. To keep it simple I would recommend to apply 10g per week for each side, DE and NDE. I trust this is sufficient. Exactly calculated it would be 11g on DE due to the bearing combination and 10g on the NDE. Regards, TTR [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks TrackRunner for your effort.I really appreciate it. Can you please tell me is it ok to consider only 6044M/C3 bearing for drive end and not NU244M/C3? The DE has double-bearing combination. So will the regreasing quantity and frequency not change because of it ? Thanks & Regards Vin [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Flow control for pressurized sleeve bearing oil lubrication system
Registered Member J Heber. I think you understand the question correctly. I work in a generating station also and we have needle valve control also. I have never seen the compensated ones used anywhere. It was suggested to me that these might be an improvement for us. I am still not willing to try them on critical fans based on the information I have received, such as yours. I have a test box built for improving cooling for a motor bearing, I might put these on that setup since there would be no risk. Thanks... [ more ]
Registered Member I work in the power generation, coal fired plants with multiple PA, FD and ID fans, with the setup of a needle valve just outside the sleeve bearing box. I have never seen these needle valves automated for temperature control. These needle valves help control system pressure but moreso volume of oil to the bearing. It would be very risky to automate these valve for temperature. When hot as as summer gets around here it would flood the bearing as the overflow wiers could not keep up with the... [ more ]
Registered Member Valve, I know what the installed equipment and system is and how it operates. That is not the question. My question is: Does anyone have experience using a needle valve that is pressure and temperature compensated on each bearing. The reason for my question is that I have never seen this setup and was wondering what the benefits are. Thanks for your response [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Looking for and effective gearbox oil at extreme low Temp.
Registered Member Yes, Mobilgear SHC series lubes might work well. If quantity is small and cost is not a matter then KRYTOX lube may offer some solution. I am not very sure but you can explore on this. [ more ]
Registered Member In my days with a major gear OEM I did some research on gearbox lubrication at temps like -40 F. This was being done as we were supplying gearboxes for the Alaska pipeline. The products we finally decided on were the Mobil SHC series. The SHC is for synthesized hydrocarbon. Usually we picked something a grade or two less viscous for drives that were outdoors. What you want to do is minimize or eliminate what is termed channeling. This is when the lubricant turns solid and the gears when they... [ more ]
Registered Member I have a good customer who is in the food industry, and has flash freezers that go to -40 deg. F. They use two different types, both food grade (H-1). For the flash freezers, they use CHevron Tegra synthetic compressor oil, ISO 68. The main problem they have is water ingress, which destroys the gearbox before anything else has a chance to. Seems the sanitation department like to have the sprays right on the shaft of the gearbox underneath the drive cogs. For the coolers, which are at 0 deg. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Your input/experience with Timken M-Power Single Point Lubricators
Registered Member You should check out the Pulsarlube Bluetooth unit with 850 psi! Lubricates up to 8 lube points up to 10 ft away and can be monitored via an easy to download App on your cell phone. The Standard Pulsarlube Mechanical Automatic lubricator can lubricate up to 8 lube point from 20 ft away / lube point! Bluetooth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukE2Fi_mqzg&t=9s [ more ]
Registered Member Shaun, Thank you for updating this thread with your experiances. I think the auto grease canisters have came a long way since I started using Perma Lubes (twist the tab and pop the pill) back in 1990 I think. It is good to know you have used them in cold climes. Have you had any bearing failures due to lack of grease in those areas? I like the 350 psi too. Thanks again. Dave [ more ]
Registered Member I'm a little late to this thread, but thought this information would be worthwile for future viewers. The Timken units are the Perma Star Vario units private labelled for Timken. The units produce 70psi max which could support pushing an NLGI 2 lubricant up to 9' through 1/4" .050 wall tubing at room (72°F) temperatures. When you are looking at pushing a higher viscosity fluid, pumping in lower temperatures, or using on a critical piece of equipment, Memolub makes a unit that generates... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
interpreting DGA results using IEC 60599 ratio method
Registered Member I am familiar with the US IEEE standards, but not the international IEC standards. Two comments: 1 – The ratio methods are not valid unless you have some minimum quantities of gas. Per IEEE C57-104 (1991), page 22 "Determining the validity of the ratio procedure: if at least one of the gases in each ratio R1, R2, R3, R4 exceeds limit L1, the ratio is valid, otherwise the ratios are not significant" 2 – Generally we expect a fair quantity of nitrogen based on the nitrogen blanket, but a... [ more ]
Registered Member Thank you for the reply Electricpete, I agree with you that C2H2 is strong evidence for arcing since this gas will be formed at least at temperature 800 degC – 1200 degC (IEC 60599- section 4.1), and this range of temperature will only achieve in arcing failure. Water content for this transformer is 32 mg/kg. Please correct me if I'am wrong, the ratio for O2/N2 for this transformer is about 0.48. So, as per IEC 60599- section 5.5 "O2/N2 ratio", the abnormal oil heating/oxidation is not... [ more ]
Registered Member The ratio methods generally do not apply when you have gases in the undetectable range. As you probably already know, the simple analysis for these results is arcing (based on very high C2H2 which is a strong indicator... cannot be formed at temperatures below where arcing occurs) Also your oxygen seems abnormally high which to me suggests the transformer is not well sealed from the outside air... makes me wonder about the moisture content (was that tested?) [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Grease ISO-VG Specification?
Registered Member Yes, viscosity of the base oil is an important property and is not addressed in the NLGI grade. The viscosity of the base oil is not a secret, it is available from the manufacturer and should be considered along with other paramters in grease selection. For the Mobilith SHC series discussed in the other thread, the viscosity of the base oil is part of the grease identification. SHC100 has viscosity grade 100 for base oil, SHC46 has VG46 for base oil, etc. All in the SHC series are NLGI 2... [ more ]
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