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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Vibration analysis for Pump at different pressures.
Registered Member Hello Dave, thank you for your reply. I have attached a cross section of the pump, the model i took readings on is a PFCS440, running at 1500 rpm These pumps are usually used with presses, but work great with other applications, so they the working pressure can continuously be changed, say 10 bar to 700 bar back to 200 bar to 300 and so on, just depending on what the customer desires. And it can also be left running at a constant pressure. Coupling is Flexible- Bush Pin Coupling Mounting:... [ more ]
Registered Member Vibman, I see you asked this question awhile back, I will offer some knowledge, attached example, 9 piston axial hydraulic pump, varying load every month, velocity data shows piston pass up and down when pressure increases/decreases. Same pump in operation for over 15 years. If you can provide additional details of make/model of your pump, how is it driven, operating speed, how is it mounted to earth, does the manufacturer have any vibration limits Dave [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Which is the best method to diagnostic the very slow speed machinery?
Registered Member You certainly want to trust on ultrasound to inspect>detect>measure>trend>analyze>ACT when monitoring condition on slow speed assets. [ more ]
Registered Member wear debris analysis( WDA) of grease [ more ]
Registered Member Thank you for your comments, what do you mean about grease ferrography? VastOcean [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Cross Channell Phase Analysis with CSI 2140
Registered Member M6 MILS, this thread you are responding to was back in 2014, under each posters name is a date, that is the date the thread was started, in case you did not know [ more ]
Registered Member If you dont have a 4-channel adapter. You should be use a triaxial sensor. Let us know if you succeed. [ more ]
Registered Member I bought the 4-channel adapter with mine to avoid all the cable issues, at least initially. I will be buying other cables as I sort it out. It's a little confusing. Not sure why they didn't just add 2 other connectors on the box, so you had access to all 4 channels by default. "The trend is your friend" MachineryAnalysis.org [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
How to calculate belt frequency
Registered Member HOW TO IDENTIFY RESONANCE AND WHAT TO DO IF RESONANCE HAPPENS? WHAT IS THE USE OF BUMP TEST? [ more ]
Registered Member On-line calculator at https://www.ctconline.com/fileup/VIBCALC.lzx.swf . Just watch the selected units ("Imperial" or "metric"). John from PA [ more ]
Registered Member It is the length along the pitchline of the belt in most cases, but the measured outer perimeter of the belt is probably close enough. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Displacement: Mils True Pk-Pk to Mils RMS?
Registered Member Luz, Vibration readings can be expressed in different ways some of which are common and standard. You may want to keep using mil rms for your sleeve bearing machines but you take a risk of misinterpreting the readings if you use references based on mil p-p. Bode plot, for example, will be difficult to interpret. Using mil rms after converting mil p-p for shaft vibration (classic horizontal machines) may twist some of the results. For example, vibration alarms are harder to trigger from rms... [ more ]
Registered Member Hi Ron, Thanks for the feedback. The machinery we are monitoring has sleeve bearings. They are 2000 hp pump units and operate between 450 - 695 rpms. We are tracking displacement due to thrust (mils), vibration displacement (mils pk-pk; or in our case mils rms), and vibration velocity (in/sec rms). I've been taught that vibration displacement is best for machines operating below 600 rpms. I don't know how true that is, but we do monitor displacement and velocity. For most of our smaller,... [ more ]
Registered Member Luz, First, if someone wants a vibration specification set to mils displacement, then the sensor utilized to measure this should be measuring that as it's native units, such as a proximity probe. That said, the proper units to read would be peak to peak. Because displacement readings are weighted toward low frequency and higher frequencies tend to be attenuated, why would someone choose that parameter for acceptance? I can only think of one reason for using it and that would be for... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Back of pads curve in tilting pad Journal Bearings
Registered Member If there is a mechanical pivot in (or near) the center of the pad, then the curvature of the back of the pad is irrelevant (other than that you don't want it to contact anything through the full possible range of pad tilt). It would be whatever is easiest to manufacture. I've heard of fluid pivots, which would be different. I don't know anything about those. Sorry if I have misunderstood your question. [ more ]
Registered Member To enhance your understanding of tilt pad bearings, I suggest you download and review the content at https://www.kingsbury.com/pdf/catalog-PJ.pdf [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
2130 set up
Registered Member Hi Ando thanks for your help man, it seems to of worked on one machine I set it up in, now I have to do the rest thanks for your help Dale [ more ]
Registered Member Hi @Registered Member, We can group several measurement by setting it in the dbase setup. Go to the dbase setup tree structure, highlight on the equipment, then select edit. Select Group/Ch tab on the right side of the screen. There will be list of your measurement point, for your example pick a number let's say 21 for group number on M1H and M1P and for channel column also 1 (because you group 2 measurements for 1 sensor i.e. the hor position and peakvue, if you have want to take 2 channel... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
2x line frequency
Registered Member You are correct James! Walt [ more ]
Registered Member The peak is at 7200, and the running speed is 3573, so it seems like this is 2XLF and not 2X running speed. Especially since there is a small peak before the one at 7200. That peak seems like it would be 2X running speed (7146CPM). Correct if I'm wrong, please, I'm new to this stuff. [ more ]
Registered Member 2*LF at these levels is relatively common and imo not a concern unless there is a significant deviation from trend or from sister units. There is another peak a few hundred cpm above 3x. If there is no obvious explanation (belt drive or gear drive), I’d be more worried about this, even though the magnitude is smaller. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Which is the best method to diagnostic bearing faults?
Registered Member Personally I agree with Allan as far as using ultrasound, vibration and oil analysis to determine if you have bearing issues as well as to make your best attempt to control or eliminate future issues. Infrared is great and I have about 15 years of IR experience. However (again agreeing with Allan) by the time bearing issues show up with IR, it might be to late. You might want to look into a simple lube monitoring system such as the UE 201 or possibly a frequency adjustable ultrasound... [ more ]
Registered Member You don't get away that easy, Kairul HN. Why? Its not enough to say, "Vibration is the best". You have to support your statement. "A car is the best means of transportation" is a true statement; until I arrive at the end of the road and need a boat, a train, or a plane to continue; or a traffic jam and wish I'd brought a bicycle or just plain continue on foot. I maintain there are no absolutes when it comes to condition monitoring, predictive maintenance, or asset condition management, or... [ more ]
Registered Member Vibration analysis is the best to 'diagnose' or 'anticipate' bearing fault for REB type of bearing. The brand? - depending on each analyst experience... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Are all cat 2 certifications internationally recognized?
Registered Member Technical Associates of Charlotte offer the ISO an ASNT certifications as well. [ more ]
Registered Member To be recognized by ISO, companies have to pay big money. It's why a lot of companies will use ISO standards but don't offer an official ISO certification. As far as I know only Mobius and Vibration Institute offer the official ISO certification in North America. [ more ]
Registered Member Interesting, the whole ASNT certification process is still a mystery to me. I read that they are the American representatives for ISO. So, that still leaves the question, are Vibe Institute, Mobius, and Emerson equal in the eyes of worldwide industry or is Vibe Institute the go to certification for Vibration Anslysis. When I certified at Emerson they said that ISO dictates the test material and questions. If that is indeed the case, wouldn't all ISO accredited training programs be equal? I... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Beating Phenomenon at Plant
Registered Member http://www.vtab.se/PHP-NBoard/...um2/HTML/000460.html http://www.xyobalancer.com/xyo...-blog/beat-frequency Dave [ more ]
Registered Member hi jim p can you confirm it will not cause any secondary damage. i thought beating is part of resonance. [ more ]
Registered Member Quote, "I have a thought that the high vibration from the beating might causing any secondary damage." No By itself, beating is not a problem. In the case I mentioned, the beating phenomenon merely caused problems with our overall alarm setting. The only way we could deal with it was to statistically evaluate the highest levels and set our baseline appropriately. The beating exists, it causes NO DAMAGE and there is nothing else to do except adjust our alarm baselines to account for it. Quote... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
vibration analysis and online monitoring
Registered Member It's pretty much the same as PeakVue by CSI. You assign the high pass filter that best suits your Fmax. Anything under 500 Hz use a 500 Hz HP filter, 500-1000 use 1000 Hz HP filter, etc... [ more ]
Registered Member KJS Can you explain your question more? gE is enveloped acceleration, a d signal processing technique to detect bearing failure and gear defects. The enveloping uses high pass filter 1000 Hz for example (high pass filter removes the signal from 0 till 1000 from the processing) to have a cleaner signal in the high frequency range where bearing defects and gear defects normally reside, with the view to removing the frequencies like unbalance, looseness and misalignment etc. [ more ]
Registered Member what is the full form of gE . [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
low flow and cavitation
Registered Member Check on fluid mechanics textbook? [ more ]
Registered Member http://www.pumped101.com/ In the centrifugal pump basic hydraulic section there is a section on cavitation which includes sources other than low NPSH. [ more ]
Registered Member What is your purpose of "calculating" the flow at which the pump will undergo cavitation if you have this information from the vendor's documents? In your post, it is stated that cavitation took place at a low flow rate. I guess, the tendency to develop cavitation increases as the flow rare increases (not the other way around). In general, cavitation can take place if the suction pressure decreases, flow increases, suction temperature increases or the liquid being pumped changes its vapor... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Active Balancing for Cement ID Fans
Registered Member Teflon coating may work? I know they can spray Teflon coatings on similar to the powder coat process. I believe the Teflon is sprayed on wet and then baked. [ more ]
Registered Member Sir I am also working in cement plant i think you should try Sir Dave's approach in applying a coating that will help you in minimizing the build ups. You should also check on the process because if build ups is frequent there is an underlying cause maybe you should check on the materials passing through your fans. [ more ]
Registered Member How old is the cement plant? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Triax for CSI & mountings
Registered Member I WILL GIVE IT A SHOT, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME & HELP [ more ]
Registered Member You can test the channels. just create a fake machine and shake the accelerometer in a particular direction. It's very likely that channel A is 1, B is 2 and C is 3. If you want to use it vertically, just assing channel 1 to the vertical measurement point in database setup and the 2 others accordingly. [ more ]
Registered Member first, I do not have x, y, z. mine has A B C. which is odd since everyone at emerson said it should say x, y, z. so to be clear, if z=channel 1 horizontal, then you should only put the triax on horizontally? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Gearbox vibration.
Registered Member Until now you haven't mentioned damage. Can you supply some pictures or a description of the damage you encounter? Early on I mentioned that the 1st reduction had 9 assembly phases. Are you aware of the ramifications of that statement and the potential for gear distress? Also, the 150mm flange, can you show a picture of that with the transducer mounted? Depending on the signal path there may not be much attenuation. [ more ]
Registered Member I understand that you would not normally consider such a low amplitude in the vibration spectra, however my concern for the peaks and their amplitudes evolve from the the fact that the measurement points for this shaft is not in a particularly ideal spot. The vibration has to transmit through around about 150mm of flange before reaching the accelerometer so I find that all of my vibration amplitudes are very low in comparison to the amount of damage I find in the gearboxes. I will take into... [ more ]
Registered Member Some additional info: Ghost frequency as I describe it above tracks speed. If you do a web search you will find other information about ghost frequencies that do not track speed. One in particular is the identification of some ghost frequencies using a CSI 2140 to be found at http://www2.emersonprocess.com...p_GhostFrequency.pdf . The key take away from that paper is in the conclusions it is mentioned that one goal is to identify the source of the component. A key characteristic of the 1900... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
balancing paper rollers
Registered Member Vector splitting. http://reliabilityweb.com/inde...anges_and_splitting/ rgds [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks Vibe and William. Your info were really useful . Is indeed about a flexible rotor, but I can not use a non contact laser for the middle. After measurements at 800- 1200 m/min, using a portable microlog SKF,I did a 2 plane balancing. For the weights bigger than ~ 1000 grams, split it in half and at each side, attached 1/2 along a quarter shell from each end, not more then 75-100 g for one weight. Threaded holes and weights. For safety, welded outside. Grind locally and polished. Almost... [ more ]
Registered Member Technically, you can get the measurements at two or more speeds, a coastdown will do for the measurements (at the bearings). [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
New tech with a question
Registered Member Hi Luke, as Sinsk points out Peakvue can be very sensitive - with+ the correct settings if I can add that. So sensitive in fact that you don't want to make a changeout decision based on it alone (in most cases) Sinsk will know that paper machine dryer bearings or the like might show cracked inner races very well in Peakvue but they are almost always there in accel or vel as well. Maybe not so clear. So treat Peakvue with caution it is not the be all and end all it is purported to be. Needs... [ more ]
Registered Member When I take data I have my 2130 set so I can see what I'm collecting. If something peaks (no pun intended) my curiosity in PeakVue I go into manual analyze and take a high frequency data point so I have something to compare when I'm back at the computer. I also do a speed detection point to determine real speed for analysis. [ more ]
Registered Member This a similar thread of basically the same question. http://maintenanceforums.com/e...061853/m/10620376963 [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Bearings - essential "as constructed" information
Registered Member You'll never predict the exact bearing installed. It might be a bearing number on a drawing but you cannot control where it is bought from, especially the manufacturer as John from PA highlights. or what version it is. So stick with bearing number only and use your inbuilt bearing data base to show you the permutations and combinations for the particular number. As well as this figure out which dimension series have what "frequency harmonic families" For example, 3.08x or anything very close... [ more ]
Registered Member With regards to changes in bearing details by OEM, I guess the OEM salesman should inform the client by giving the new bearing details or the person in charge should inspect the new bearing upon receipt at Store and ask for new details if any changes. [ more ]
Registered Member In CMMS which may be like AMS, it is possible to type in all equipment data sheet but so far, it is easier to just enter the equipment model no. and refer to a booklet of all the equipment sheets which is handy. So for AMS, you might want to copy this practice to speed up the data population effort upfront. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
SPUR GEARS MESHING STANDARD (backlash)
Registered Member I perhaps don't understand your question or perhaps you don't understand backlash. Backlash is a the clearance between mating gear teeth and allows gear teeth to mesh without binding. There is a minimum desirable backlash for any given gearset since the backlash clearance also allows for a film of lubricating oil between the teeth. Go to http://www.wmberg.com/catalog/pdf/b00k2-16.pdf and download the PDF file. Backlash, as a function of gear quality is discussed starting on page 8. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
line frequency
Registered Member Thank you guys for all the inputs... [ more ]
Registered Member Alexis, We measure 2 x line frequency because it is usually alternating current. Synchronous motor speed (rpm) = 2 x line frequency (cpm)/number of motor poles In an AC induction motor, there will normally be a small degree of slip so a 4 pole motor on 7200 cpm would have a synchronous speed of 1800 rpm but a running speed of 1750-1800 rpm depending on the construction and load. [ more ]
Registered Member I work in one mill where the power plant is required to produce and use a certain amount of power at 25 hz. I didn't know about that until I found a bad bearing in what turned out to be a 2 pole motor powered by 25 hz. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Help Starting ESA/MCSA Program
Registered Member This thread is old, but if there is still an interest, here goes. The ATpol II is based on technology developed by Framatome. It was and evidently still is, sold as Ultracheck Empath 2000. Their website has some good training materials. I investigated this stuff years ago and found it to be impossibly difficult to apply, so I never bought into it. THe ATpol is a single phase version of the Empath. http://www.us.areva-np.com/ultracheck/EMPATH.htm [ more ]
Registered Member http://www.reliableplant.com/R...tor-circuit-analysis http://www.alltestpro.com/trai...re-analysis-seminar/ http://www.reliabilityweb.com/...0and%20Principle.pdf http://ecmweb.com/content/true...tor-circuit-analysis http://www.industry.usa.siemen...uments/ac_motors.pdf Here is some resource material Dave [ more ]
Registered Member I should add, I've read the manuals but they all assume a degree of knowledge I dont yet possess. I can comfortably use the PRO31 and PROIV(both by all test) for offline analysis but the ESA just seems a bit abstract... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
The unit is operating with noisy.
Registered Member please re-lubricate the bearing because i see a noise floor rise at high frequency [ more ]
Registered Member Check alignment and coupling condition in addition to looseness. Is it not unbalance?A few questions- Is it a new installation or and existing one. When was it last serviced? Has vibration grown over time or all of a sudden? Is it mounted on isolators? Vibmaster [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
dbl/suction pump thusrting
Registered Member that helps alot thanks. [ more ]
Registered Member It's not "so much" the clearance you should look at to determine the thrust direction as it is the diameter of the wear rings. For years double suction pumps were made with wear rings that were the same size, as technology increased people began to see that this caused "axial shuttling" because the rotor was not loaded in one direction or another (would "hunt" during operation). Now standard practice is to offset the wear rings diametrically .125 or .250 to load the rotor in one direction... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Using torque wrench to make shaft allignment more accurate
Registered Member If the macine foot is resting solidly on a shim, and the shim is contacting the base solidly, it doesn't matter how tight you get it. The foot won't get any closer to the base than the thickness of the shim. You almost surely have a soft foot. Using a torque wrench just means you are getting about the same gap under the foot. You may still have soft foot related vibration, and the shim may "walk out" from under the foot. [ more ]
Registered Member Hi all Thanks all for the sharing i' m just thinking to make use of torque wrench as part of the work instruction..as improvement from our current practice.. usually we also check for soft foot using analyzer on alignment job [ more ]
Registered Member I had a mechanic tell me the other day that they used a torque wrench to tighten motor feet bolts during an alignment and things worked much better. I would think when the bolts are tightend the same every time it would make the alignment easier. It won't doing anything for a soft foot though. Thanks [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Misalignment 2x cross phase analysis
Registered Member Angular misalignment will always show higher 1X in the axial direction. Parallel or offset misalignment will have a 2X component. If the 2X component is 50% or greater than the 1X component, you are likely measuring misalignment. I agree with Bill. Phase is rather ambiguous. Since laser alignment is now predominant, I rarely measure significant misalignment, which makes me "less hated" by the millwrights/mechanics. Note: I said "less" hated. [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks Epete & William, I am use to and stick to 1x too. Just that my partner does not agree on it due to 2x peak is higher. Thanks [ more ]
Registered Member The normal rules apply to 1X as ElPete says. However, there are many instances where any valid (if any are valid) assumptions behind the phase logic do not hold. If the assumptions do not hold, do not expect the logic to work. Coupling spans will have their dynamic characteristics. Natural frequencies or response largely influenced by natural frequency can have normally out of phase response (or in-phase for that matter); these situations can produce axial vibration with similar phase... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Maintenance Conferences in the MENA region
Registered Member I think this one is more relevant, Hardware & Tools Middle East in DUBAI www.hardwaretoolsme.com [ more ]
Registered Member Trevor, I don't believe there is any specific event for the Condition Monitoring in MENA. You need to visit the maintenance expo which are not held too often as well. But you can have opportunities over there. Maintenance, Reliability and Overhaul exhibition in Dubai, 5-6 Feb, 2014 [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Hours senior engineers in the field have to spend on chair?
Registered Member I would think a lot of reliability jobs somewhat allow you to make what you want of them. It would be helpful if your desk is close to the Maintenance shop and close to the plant. I have that advantage: My desk is about 100 feet from the Maintenance shop and 100 yards from the equipment (no gate to go through, I’m already inside). Physical proximity affords a lot of opportunity to make yourself useful and keep involved with the field work. I try to talk with the craftsmen in the shop when... [ more ]
Registered Member Be a problem solver and not a data book keeper! Walt [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Detailed Procedures on Gearboxes Overhauling/Reconditioning
Registered Member Don't worry, if it's a Philly it's probably built with bearings that nobody but Timken makes. And even Timken might not be making them. Dave [ more ]
Registered Member So, what have been done to those gearboxes by now? Overhauled inhouse or by OEM? [ more ]
Registered Member I tend to agree with John. (Disclaimer, my company is an OEM who does a large variety of gearbox rebuilds of our own and competitor equipment, so that flavors my opinion.) What I see is rebuilds are often done in-house or at local machinery shops that have the ability to pull it apart, change bearings, visually check for damage, and replace stuff. If you're regularly servicing drives and the lifecycle of these drives after this method of repair is acceptable, then it can be successful. The... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Mobius Learning software
Registered Member If youre talking about the ILearn software from Mobius. I took their class several years ago in Tennessee. They had some of the best animations showing you WHY and HOW certain frequencies are generated.WIth the Instructors knowledge and experience it wasoneof the best classes I have taken. To answer the question YES the training sioftware is very good. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Electrical Panel Temperatures
Registered Member The normal temperature inside a panel is governed by the temperature range of operation of the electrical and electronic components installed. Coolers installed to your main panels should have an operating range by design (thermostat setting), so that's the temperature range you should look to agree to the operating temperature of the components of your boards. [ more ]
Registered Member 95 degrees F or Celcius? What is the ambient temp outside? In equatorial climate, the temp inside the substation is always lower than the ambient temp outside via air-conditioning. Do you use thermography to identify any hotspots? WHat type of coolers do you have? Is it exhaust fan? [ more ]
Registered Member These are in a atmosphere controlled factory. Temp usually stays below 95 degrees in the plant. They are control panels with VFDs, PLCs, breakers and fuses. Motor contactors...stuff like that. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
DC Generator analysis
Registered Member Why has it become out of balance you must ask? How do you know its unbalanced, typically these types of units, do not just develop unbalance. They should have been installed balanced from manufacturer or when last overhauled. Do some basic checks if you can shut down, i.e. check couplings, holding down bolts etc. There may be more than meets the eye. PS can you supply full spectra and or vibration levels. [ more ]
Registered Member Lullan, Would recommend that you hire an outside company to perform the work. You can then observe how the procedure is done and how the technology works. This has to be an expensive machine and the fastest way to get a bad reputation is to "try" something and you cause machine to fail. Do not have enough time to tell you why you should not do it, that's why you should leave this someone with experience. Dave [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementFor PdM Beginners Only
Acceleration vs Velocity
Registered Member Becareful will average rate of acceleration computed from velocities at two different times. One can calculate average velocity similarly by measuring distance (position) and dividing by time. One can and does measure intantaneous acceleration with an accelerometer. This gives acceleration at any given time. This differs from average acceleration over a time interval. There is a relationship at each frequency between acceleration and velocity, i.e. at each frequency, f --- A = K(f) V -... [ more ]
Registered Member yes Racer98, spectra are taken from the same data and just converted from one measurement type to the other within the software. So thank you for giving me some better feel. [ more ]
Registered Member I would say yes. If these are the taken from the same data and just converted from one measurement type to the other within the software, this is exactly the type of change you may see. Remember, in the acceleration spectrum the peaks are measured in gs, which is the force of impact. The peaks in the velocity spectrum are measured in mm/s. just a different way of looking at the same data. [ more ]
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