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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
standard for oil condition monitoring
Registered Member Online Oil Condition Monitoring is conducted as an extension of the routine condition monitoring procedures. It can help provide accurate and meaningful information on the lubricant as well as the overall health of the asset. Listed below is the functionality of a standard oil condition monitoring system. 1) Oil analysis sensors measure the oil’s dielectric constant. These sensors provide alerts as the oil degrades or becomes contaminated. 2) These sensors then measure optical... [ more ]
Registered Member Hi Aziz, You can use the following standard: - API 614 for your lube oil system - ASTM D4378, for lubrication condition monitoring of your Turbines - ASTM D6224, for the other various rotating equipment. Good luck, [ more ]
Registered Member Aziz offers some good advice. If you are using a commercial lab they can lend their expertize to your endeavor. Most have standard test slates that cover the different tests depending on the type of equipment. Your lubricant supplier is also a good source of knowledge and experience especially the major suppliers. If money is not an issue (?) the best way to get an effective program started is to have an expert come in and do a survey and setup the program for you. This eliminates quite a... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Effect of moisture in a gearbox
Registered Member Water in lube oil is not good for many reasons. Water is a poor lubricant and it can damage the additive package which governs the oil properties. As a result, that damages the lubricated components. A typical limit for water in lube oil is 200 ppm. Where I work, anything above 200 ppm would raise a flag. For sure, most applications would consider 1000 ppm too high. Catastrophic failures of heavy-duty gearboxes can happen even when the water is less than 100 ppm if there are other issues and... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
WPC Limit
Registered Member WPC limits should not be tied to the specific lubricant but to the specific machine in question. Machine design such as clearances and materials would determine a tolerable level of wear. For example a precision machine tool would have much stricter limits on WPC than a trash compactor. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Online Oil Condition Monitor
Registered Member I have heard EASZ-1 is good. It does report the conditions in the engine lubrication, pipeline, turbines, thrusters etc. But I haven't used it. That's what I've heard from my folks. [ more ]
Registered Member Hi Sohail, We partner with this company called Reynolds Contamination Control Ltd. Check out their range of sensors: https://www.linkedin.com/posts...346451701321728-xNRx Their sensors readily integrate to our online platform, remotesense.io. Please let me know if you require further information. Hassan Sherbaz info@remotesense.io [ more ]
Registered Member No I didn't Walt. I was hoping to hear from folks who may already be using such a device. Thanks for posting the link. I will check it out. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Premature wear
Registered Member RIch, Great response, I am glad I read this posting and learned something. Walt [ more ]
Registered Member Almost certainly wrong lubricant. This worm gear is a sliding contact application, with a softer bronze pinion. EP additives are only for rolling/sliding contact where both contacts are ferrous gears. EP doesn’t provide protection in this contact and can contribute to bronze corrosion and loss. Only oils with compounding agents or PAG synthetics have the necessary polarity and lubricity to maintain an effective sliding contact film to protect the surfaces. AGMA ISO 18792-A19 provides... [ more ]
Registered Member You should go for a higher dp/module set of worm and worm wheel, which should satisfy your load requirement [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Engines & Compressors Daily Lube Oil Consumption Benchmark
Registered Member Dear colleagues here a poster on Lubrication ( no cost to download) https://reliabilityweb.com/steal-these-graphics [ more ]
Registered Member For lub oil consumption, each manufacturer recommends the specific oil consumption rate with respect to the normal operating conditions at full load condition. Threr is no formula to find out the daily lube oil consumption. By actual reading one has to establish the range of oil consumption for a perticular engine for different seasons. [ more ]
Registered Member Dip stick may be used. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Gearbox failure due to Scuffing
Registered Member As ayman gamal said ..the trend of vibration give us the nature of damage and cause of it ..anyway you must inspection the clearance of all bearings ..is the gearbox manufactured from certified company or not .. [ more ]
Registered Member can you post vibration spectrum and time wave form for the gears suffering from high noise and vibration if it also possible , can you record wav. file by ultrasound device? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Your input/experience with Timken M-Power Single Point Lubricators
Registered Member You should check out the Pulsarlube Bluetooth unit with 850 psi! Lubricates up to 8 lube points up to 10 ft away and can be monitored via an easy to download App on your cell phone. The Standard Pulsarlube Mechanical Automatic lubricator can lubricate up to 8 lube point from 20 ft away / lube point! Bluetooth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukE2Fi_mqzg&t=9s [ more ]
Registered Member Shaun, Thank you for updating this thread with your experiances. I think the auto grease canisters have came a long way since I started using Perma Lubes (twist the tab and pop the pill) back in 1990 I think. It is good to know you have used them in cold climes. Have you had any bearing failures due to lack of grease in those areas? I like the 350 psi too. Thanks again. Dave [ more ]
Registered Member I'm a little late to this thread, but thought this information would be worthwile for future viewers. The Timken units are the Perma Star Vario units private labelled for Timken. The units produce 70psi max which could support pushing an NLGI 2 lubricant up to 9' through 1/4" .050 wall tubing at room (72°F) temperatures. When you are looking at pushing a higher viscosity fluid, pumping in lower temperatures, or using on a critical piece of equipment, Memolub makes a unit that generates... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Lubricators using PDAs instead of lube sheets?
Registered Member You should check out The NEW Pulsarlube Bluetooth Automatic Lubricator! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukE2Fi_mqzg&t=9s [ more ]
Registered Member Vendor Warning! Hello Ken Not only is it feasible, PDAs for lube route management have been used for several years in many different industries. Typically, instead of printing each lubrication techs lube rounds out on paper, the techs download an electronic copy of their rounds from their lube management software into rugged handheld units, usually Pocket PCs. The tech carries out his/her rounds, checking levels, doing top ups, greasing bearings etc. and marking the lube tasks as complete on... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
LOS pipeline MOC
Registered Member Thanks. [ more ]
Registered Member If using oil at TAN >1, CS lines may face corrosion . [ more ]
Registered Member For fresh oil TAN is around 0.06. Oil replacement is at around 1. Better also see oil datasheet from manufacturer. CS is used in most of the lub oil lines. If you have oil purifier for removing moisture, you will have little increase in TAN value, and increased lub oil life. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Selectio of lub oil/ grease for pump
Registered Member The identification of base oil viscosity plays an important role in selecting an oil or grease. DN factor (DN Number) is used to identify the right base oil viscosity for the lubrication of a bearing. For a DN factor less than 1 million, grease is preferred. Oil lubricants are opted when the DN factor is over 1 million. Spherical roller thrust bearings are very special designs that produce enormous amount of shear stress on the lubricants. Since the pump is vertical, the thrust bearing must... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Issue modifying parameter set information
Registered Member Thanks friend, apparently a user is connected, but it was strange since we even turned off the partner's PC and the problem was still the same, what I did was restart the server and repair the database and now it's normal. Is there any way to configure the session to be automatically closed if you stop using it for a while (example 10 min)? [ more ]
Registered Member You might post this in the Vibration section to get more eyes on it. Adding more information may improve responses to your question. Walt [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Tan oil refrigerant
Registered Member Due to water ingress and resulting hydrolysis, TAN no increases. It is very difficult to bring back the TAN value within limit. Certain ion exchange systems are there but not very effective. [ more ]
Registered Member @aziz58 Thanks for uploading the lab report. I am not familiar with this format but assume that the items with the asterisks (*) are the results the lab is showing concern about. If you have real concerns then contact the oil supplier or the compressor supplier. These results are not bad, but you need to pay attention to some aspects. I think the The Total Acid Number is OK. It may reflect contamination from any remaining oil from the previous charge, as well as current operating conditions. [ more ]
Registered Member acidity/basicity - for chlorinated refrigerants like Freon or R-22, we recommend running a test for Total Acid Number (TAN). For ammonia-based systems we recommend running a test for Total Base Number (TBN). TAN can affect the miscibility of the lubricant in the refrigerant. https://forums.noria.com/topic...trifgual-chiller-oil https://www.tranehk.com/files/...THD_IOM__AUG2018.pdf page 105 Copper is not a good sign, normally there is a coating protecting the copper, once you find copper... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Repeated Lube oil filter clogging
Registered Member Thanks Nurudin.. It sounds sorth trying. I will do a deep dive in this aspect. [ more ]
Registered Member Hi RELI, Your existing oil (2nd) is classified as ASTM type II oil, which having extra additive for Geared Turbine (EP) and additional anti-oxidation performance. Unless there is no significant wear debris is found in the filter, It may just fluid compatibility issue. I am worry with the additive which may react with your new type filter element. I have some customer that having similar issues. Mostly it happen with paper filter type. Changing to the suitable type of filter element may solve... [ more ]
Registered Member Thanks for your time and response Dave, I have replied to your queries above. after all the tests and with limited clue we are hoping that some contamination was left behind during oil change and It shall settle down with couple of element changes. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Sealed bearing usage in motors over 300hp
Registered Member Thanks for all the great comments. Looks like we should be ensuring we have a good lubrication program in place and then stick with the possibility to lubricate when needed. [ more ]
Registered Member I agree with other posts, shielded or open. Unless you are fighting a moisture issue then sealed may extend bearing life. Perhaps take the guess work out, grease zerks by using http://www.bijurdelimon.com/us...er-390/lubesite.html Dave [ more ]
Registered Member I would stick to a bearing that can be greased, meaning an open bearing or remove the shields. Set up a program to grease motors every 6 months with the Grease Caddy and you will have no problems. Been doing this for 19 years and have had great luck. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Cyclo BBB4 Reducer "Sumitomo" Expected Oil Sample Iron Levels
Registered Member Thanks for the response Greg. We're at 25/23/15 with 12 cutting, 0 sliding, 139 fatigue, so we may be a ways off yet. It's also a somewhat unfamiliar gearbox for us, so we're not sure what to expect yet. I'm still trying to nail down whether our sample was taken while running and if it was just a pour out of the drain fitting. It's a non-critical conveyor drive of ours, and we've got a center bearing stocked, so even if it breaks down, we could likely be up and running in a day, but I'm... [ more ]
Registered Member Hi Jason, The elevated iron levels on all 5 of our cyclo gear units after 2.5 years running have somewhat stabilized around 50 ppm using spectro, and we are also checking the total magnetic content every sample. We haven't had any failures yet (knock on wood). We are changing oil whenever the level on the spectro results go close or over 100 ppm. Vibration readings are taken regularly, and no considerable increase from baseline measurements from 2 years ago. However, one of the 5 units show... [ more ]
Registered Member Realizing that this is a pretty old thread, but was there ever resolution to this? I'm seeing similar levels of wear on our Cyclo. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
LEAK OIL AT BEARING HOUSING MOTOR
Registered Member Maybe if you give more information the forum members could help. General recommendations: Clean the bearing housing very thoroughly (no residual signs of the oil or grease). Then regularly check the potential locations of leakage, while the motor is running. This step will help you to identify the source point of the leakage. Is this a serious problem? Regards- Ali M. Al-Shurafa [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Regarding replacement of ynthetic oil with mineral oil
Registered Member This is what the maker says... What is the recommended way to remove water from your fluid? Phosphate ester is a heavier than water fluid and normally has very low miscibility with water which allows for good separation. The best way to remove gross water contamination is to use a “wet vacuum cleaner” to remove the water layer from the top of the fluid level in the reservoir. Removal of water which persists as a second phase but is not in sufficient quantities so as to be efficiently removed... [ more ]
Registered Member Absent any LOA data it's hard to pass judgement. I would get Fyrquel involved and talk to one of the formulation engineers as opposed to a salesman. I say this because I've been following an EHC issue for sometime (not Fyrquel fluid) and my standard LOA criteria had it as marginal at best. After talking quite extensively to the product line engineer I found out that the fluid was in every aspect in the "normal" range for the fluid blend and time of service. Boilerplate LOA acceptance... [ more ]
Registered Member The TAN value is increasing and has gone beyond limit. Also since it is heavier than water, water remains on top and is difficult to remove. Also OEM has not provided any filteration system. This is the first time, we are using synthetic oil for lubrication purpose. Any body aware of moisture removal and filteration system for synthetic oil, pl help. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
oil analysis tolerance
Registered Member hi dear thanks for useful recommendation . where can i find specific Repetability" and "Reproduceability" for each test? best regards [ more ]
Registered Member thank you all. I understand, and we will choose more samples to compare 2 or 3 lab which appoint the same person and tool. meanwhile, we will check their certification. as long as the result under ISO standard we can accept. [ more ]
Registered Member Oceandeep, How big the difference is? Each of test is having specific "Repetability" and "Reproduceability". for instant: Repeatability : Tolerance different, tested by different analyst inside A LAB Reproduceability : Tolerance different, tested by different analyst, and different LAB you can ask it to your lab. As long as the different is still under coverage of the tolerance, it is acceptable But if the different is too big,... the decission is yours you know better about your equipment ... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Shell Grease Compatibility
Registered Member PAULENGR-very well stated. I agree that the Mobil Polyrex product is the most universally used motor grease and is suitable for all but the most extreme applications. As for compatibility I agree that the newer formulations have better mixing properties and the old grease compatibility charts might not reflect current practice but in JAXN14's case I'm not sure if he is willing to take a chance. If it was me I would gradually switch to the Polyrex product when changing bearings and/or motors... [ more ]
Registered Member MOST motor bearings are greased with a high temperature non-EP polyurea grease with a base viscosity right around 95-100, NOT lithium based. So right off the top I'm suspicious that you're using the wrong grease system, not just an odd viscosity. The vast majority of motor manufacturers and motor rebuild shops as a consequence use Mobil Polyrex EM or Polyrex EM 3 and nothing else. Once in a while this gets them in trouble with the high pressure roller bearings where a high temperature... [ more ]
Registered Member Does that mean ISO VG220 is suitable for motor bearings? cause from what I know typically ISO VG100-150 is preferred. What are the consequences if higher viscosity base oil chosen? What do you mean by overkill? pricy? and can you please define "normal" application? [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Water Based Lubricant or Hydro Lubricants
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Registered Member Phosphate esters hydraulic fluids are very nasty to handle and work with. I had to deal with it while working on aircrafts and is not anything I am found of remembering. The effects of it on your skin, eyes should it mist is quite nasty. On the plus side it does a great job at removing regular paint and any plastics. Very interesting to fallow this thread on water based lubricants. [ more ]
Registered Member Water based hydraulics are used extensively in tire curing plants where oil based lubricants would be a fire hazard. We used a vegetable oil emulsion in a ductile iron pipe foundry on the casting machines for the same reason. The lubricity is obviously truly awful but once you get over that and design around the very low viscosity, it's not really that much different. "OEM" is one of the major manufacturers of the fully water based systems. The vegetable oil emulsions give you enough... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Rewitec Duragear
Registered Member I am not so sure Bro, when I check from internet, it look like additive for in-service gear oil. The maker is recommend user to use filter which micron rating shall higher than 30 micron, to avoid any filter blockage issues. it look like this fluid is containing metal additives, which active on metal surface to protect it. Before adding to your gearboxes oil reservoir, I recommend you to ask Compatibility Test with your existing in-service oil. You may need help from commercial laboratory... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Refrigerant and heat transfer oil
Registered Member I didn't find standard which concerning about these two types of oil. But I recommend you to set the test and limit as well as follow: Refrigeration Compressor Oil. Kinematic Viscosity@40 degree C (cSt, Max +10% and Min -40%) TAN (mg KOH/g, max +0.3 from starting point) Fe, Cu, Cr, Al, Pi (Max 50 ppm) Oxidation FTIR (Max 0.3 Abs) Water Content (Max 0.05%) Do oil replacement when reach 5 years or 2 Turn Around cycles. Heat Transfer Oil Kinematic Viscosity@40 degree C (cSt, Max +10% and Min... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Any advice on setting up a lube program?
Registered Member Nick, A free download is EPRI's Lube Oil Predictive Maintenance, Handling, and Quality Assurance Guideline https://www.epri.com/#/pages/product/1004384/ Its been around for a while, but hits all the important points of setting up a successful program. When it comes to grease, consider the compatibility of the existing and proposed new products when suggesting consolidation or product changeover. Articles I wrote on this is at Machinery Lubrication:... [ more ]
Registered Member Hi, Thanks for the advice. In the meantime if anyone understands or has an idea on how to establish the list as stated above please let me know. I have to establish a grease standardization program for a fleet of diverse equipment. If there is a methodology to follow please submit it. It will be helpful. Thanks in advance [ more ]
Registered Member Hate to state the obvious, this thread started in 2006, you would have better luck contacting the poster directly if you are looking for specific information Dave [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Turboexpander Lubricant problems..
Registered Member Assuming the bearing operational temperature = 92 Degree C The oil viscosity will be: Mineral VG 100 (VI 100) = 14.6 cSt at 92 degree C. Synthetic PAO 46 (VI 170) = 10.28 cSt at 92 degree C. Here we have to consider: 1. We lost 4 cSt, and hopefully it is still acceptable by tribology calculation of the bearing. 2. If We choose synthetic PAO (PolyAlfa Olefin), I don't think so it will helping much. Because PAO is still "Non-Polar" which having same characteristic as Mineral Oil. 3. I prefer... [ more ]
Registered Member Mohammad! You said that you change Lube oil viscosity 100 to 46 and temp bearing increase? I think when you reduce viscosity machine will lower temp bearing because more flow thro bearing. Regards [ more ]
Registered Member We have special purpose built equipment to remove hydrocarbons from lube oil. Please contact me at my email address for further information. [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Oil and electricity
Registered Member Keith, I would use several technologies to identify what is truly happening with your situation, http://www.kyservice.com/wp-co...Bearing-Currents.pdf Dave [ more ]
Registered Member Dave, We use the skf tked1 to check for electrical discharge It registered about 49000 pulses in a minute. This is approx 5 times more than other motors tested. This Bearing was checked and installed properly. Just sent out a sample to see the condition of the oil. This motor and bearing isn’t 2 weeks old. Thanks for the info, Keith [ more ]
Registered Member http://www.machinerylubricatio...condition-monitoring http://www.schoolphysics.co.uk...trolysis_/index.html http://www.excellup.com/ClassE...ochemistryeight.aspx If the current passing is severe, it will definitely discolor the oil. In some cases carbon is created. Have seen dirty cooling tower water passing thru copper tubes cause a jelly like substance to buildup and greatly affect cooling ability of exchanger. The links also discuss the swap of metal, so depending on materials and their... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
key performance indicators
Registered Member One thing to look at depending on the number of machines you have in the program is the percentage that meet or exceed the recommended ISO cleanliness code. That is not only a good start on oil condition but also shows how you treat your machines-are they kept clean and water free, do you have good breathers installed and are you filtering any top off oil. There are also the sampling indicators-% on time; % missed; number of resamples required per year due to inadequate sampling locations or... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
compressor gears color become brown
Registered Member Original thread dates from late 2014. [ more ]
Registered Member Hi CM GM, Check that when you replaced all gears set in dry and clean condition? No preservatives remained? --History check No oil spray nozzles are blocked! In AOP running condition check sufficient oil qty is coming out of all nozzles with jet pressure by opening inspection window. Is there any traces of varnish other than gears locations ? [ more ]
Registered Member We have a number of these types of machines installed on our site and found similar problems, although not as severe as this and normally only after 4 years operation. API672 refers to a FZG load stage of 5, but we have found that a FZG load stage greater than 8 is much better. There are tremendous forces generated between the bull gear and the pinion teeth which compress the oil film, this pressure converts to heat energy and if the oil film is not strong enough to withstand these forces... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
Electric Motor Bearing Grease - quantity and frequency
Registered Member Hi There, Depending on the calculation used the returned "interval" may be the L10 or L1 life of the grease. This means by going longer than the calculated relive interval, there is a 10% or 1% chance the grease will fail. There are a lot of other factors at play here, and some calculators have a bit more fat built in, i.e some will give an interval of 1/3rd the "grease life". Grease thickener will have an impact also. Most relube calculators will assume a basic lithium soap/mineral oil but... [ more ]
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Asset Condition ManagementPosts About Lubrication and Oil Analysis
CSI 5200 Communication Prob - Error reading setup info from Hardware
Registered Member Thanks for reply John sir.I checked the device manager and changed the another port (COM 2).But still same condition. Sir, I am using windows XP, Can I delete the communication Port(COM 1).It is reinstall automatically when I connected the lube oil analyser? I send Port setting of the communication port. Current COM 1port setting of the system Bits per second - 9600 Data of bits - 8 Pairty - none Stop bits -1 Flow control - none Its is an ok sir? [ more ]
Registered Member As I recall, the connection is done through COM1 or COM2. It probably is selectable in the CSI software. Have you checked in Device Manager to see if the port is OK? [ more ]
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